Tithing…Is it a command?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Rereading the anti-tithing posts on here makes me really cringe about how little people love God. I am serious. God can have everything but our money. Oh no! That's MY money, and heaven knows that church doesn't need My money. I mean, after all, why should I give MY money to a church...

Because tithing is giving unto the Lord. Folks, don't let these anti-tithing thieves rob you of the principle of tithing. It is a principle that was established before the Law, continued in the Law, and encouraged in the New Covenant as a work of Abraham. When these anti-tithers stand before God, they will stand with stained garments, because they held back from God and encouraged others to do so. God must be first in our lives, including in our finances. When we put anything before God, we become idolaters, plain and simple.

I don't care what people say, God should be first in the believers lives, in every area. Paying tithes is a blessed worshipful experience, and I promise you, those who do so by faith will not go without. Those who refuse to put God first, I question seriously their salvation. Every anti-tithing excuse I have read on here is purely carnal in nature, even when they manipulate scripture in order to do so. Discern it according to the Word and Spirit. Their entire reasoning for not tithing is because they do not want to give up their money, because they have the nerve to think it is their's. Straightforward, if we do not surrender all to Jesus, He is not truly Lord of our lives. Those who are anti-tithing do not have Jesus as Lord over all, and have Him, in their minds, sharing the throne with themselves.

IN one call, all those who are against tithing, they need to find a place of repentance for not putting God first. As a former anti-tither myself, I had to repent of many things, and this included not tithing. Those do not tithe are not putting God first. Jesus is worthy of the first and best, not leftovers of what you feel you should.

Consider the source.

William do you still stand by these sentiments:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/onen...eresies-50751/

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Rereading the anti-tithing posts on here makes me really cringe about how little people love God. I am serious. God can have everything but our money. Oh no! That's MY money, and heaven knows that church doesn't need My money. I mean, after all, why should I give MY money to a church...

Because tithing is giving unto the Lord. Folks, don't let these anti-tithing thieves rob you of the principle of tithing. It is a principle that was established before the Law, continued in the Law, and encouraged in the New Covenant as a work of Abraham. When these anti-tithers stand before God, they will stand with stained garments, because they held back from God and encouraged others to do so. God must be first in our lives, including in our finances. When we put anything before God, we become idolaters, plain and simple.

I don't care what people say, God should be first in the believers lives, in every area. Paying tithes is a blessed worshipful experience, and I promise you, those who do so by faith will not go without. Those who refuse to put God first, I question seriously their salvation. Every anti-tithing excuse I have read on here is purely carnal in nature, even when they manipulate scripture in order to do so. Discern it according to the Word and Spirit. Their entire reasoning for not tithing is because they do not want to give up their money, because they have the nerve to think it is their's. Straightforward, if we do not surrender all to Jesus, He is not truly Lord of our lives. Those who are anti-tithing do not have Jesus as Lord over all, and have Him, in their minds, sharing the throne with themselves.

IN one call, all those who are against tithing, they need to find a place of repentance for not putting God first. As a former anti-tither myself, I had to repent of many things, and this included not tithing. Those do not tithe are not putting God first. Jesus is worthy of the first and best, not leftovers of what you feel you should.

Excellent message.
You have the right spirit and the Lord will bless you abundantly.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Consider the source.

William do you still stand by these sentiments:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/onen...eresies-50751/

People change, you keep on bringing trash from the past.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Rereading the anti-tithing posts on here makes me really cringe about how little people love God. I am serious. God can have everything but our money. Oh no! That's MY money, and heaven knows that church doesn't need My money. I mean, after all, why should I give MY money to a church...

Because tithing is giving unto the Lord. Folks, don't let these anti-tithing thieves rob you of the principle of tithing. It is a principle that was established before the Law, continued in the Law, and encouraged in the New Covenant as a work of Abraham. When these anti-tithers stand before God, they will stand with stained garments, because they held back from God and encouraged others to do so. God must be first in our lives, including in our finances. When we put anything before God, we become idolaters, plain and simple.

I don't care what people say, God should be first in the believers lives, in every area. Paying tithes is a blessed worshipful experience, and I promise you, those who do so by faith will not go without. Those who refuse to put God first, I question seriously their salvation. Every anti-tithing excuse I have read on here is purely carnal in nature, even when they manipulate scripture in order to do so. Discern it according to the Word and Spirit. Their entire reasoning for not tithing is because they do not want to give up their money, because they have the nerve to think it is their's. Straightforward, if we do not surrender all to Jesus, He is not truly Lord of our lives. Those who are anti-tithing do not have Jesus as Lord over all, and have Him, in their minds, sharing the throne with themselves.

IN one call, all those who are against tithing, they need to find a place of repentance for not putting God first. As a former anti-tither myself, I had to repent of many things, and this included not tithing. Those do not tithe are not putting God first. Jesus is worthy of the first and best, not leftovers of what you feel you should.

UnTraditional...

I have nothing against "tithing". In fact, I believe that a Christian is free to give any amount or percentage that they feel the Spirit leading them to give. I also believe that Christians should give sacrificially. However, what is a sacrifice for one, isn't a sacrifice for another. I also believe that if one doesn't provide for their own family, they are worse than an infidel. So, the needs of the family come first. Stable families make stable churches. I also believe in "vows" wherein a Christian vows (pledges) to give a specific amount or percentage over time. Those who make these vows are key sustaining members of a body.

What I'm troubled by is when a pastor takes the Christian and places them under the law of the OT, teaching that they must tithe or be cursed... or worse... they will go to Hell. Pastors can't pick and choose out of the law. If the law of cursing and damnation still stands... so do the other laws regarding the tithe (tithe being only produce and livestock... religious officials, widows, aliens, the poor, and trades exempt from tithing... every third years tithe dedicated to the storehouse to benefit the poor, widows, and aliens). And preachers don't dare mention those. Most don't realize this but threatening someone with harm in order to acquire money from them is extortion. I've known pastors to require elderly women on Social Security to give tithes... with the threat that they'll go to Hell if they don't. I have two problems with this.

1.) Threatening a person to gain money from them is extortion.
2.) Any life long member of God's people who has tithed their entire life has already tithed on Social Security benefits.

Now, if a pastor wishes to encourage members to commit to a 10% (tithe) commitment of their own free will (without threat of cursing or Hell), I see nothing wrong with it. Again, I see these as being vows to sustain the ministry.

I do believe that there is a spiritual principle to Christian giving. Paul wrote...

2 Corinthians 9:6-7 (ESV)
6 The point is this: whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

So, sacrificial giving is encouraged as long as it doesn't cause one to fail in their provision for their family.

Then there is the history of the tithe. And this we can discuss at length if you wish.

[Aquila]

Tithing to the point of family hardship isn't sacrificial... it's a sin.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

[Aquila]

Most Christians in the first century were among the servant class. Jewish Christians no doubt continued to tithe to the priesthood in the Temple until the division between Judaism and Christianity became firmly established. However, Gentile Christian communities spread throughout the entire Middle East. Remember, for nearly 300 years Christians didn't meet in large buildings or have a large "organizations". Instead, history shows us that they met in houses, civil squares, barns, cemeteries, caverns and caves. With so many Christians coming into the faith... where did Christians store all the money, produce, livestock, etc. that would have been tithed to them??? It would have taken a massive storehouse like that found in Jerusalem. But we don't find it in archeology or history. We don't see it in Scripture either. We read how tithing WASN'T practiced within the church up until the time of Cyprian. Cyprian wanted to institute an Old Testament style tithe to support a professional priesthood to combat heresies. In fact, Cyprian tried to impose tithing on Carthage, and it was vehemently REJECTED. The Council of Macon tried to force tithing on Christians again, and it was REJECTED. The history on this is CLEAR. The Roman Catholic church eventually instituted tithing THROUGH the royalty ruling various governments. It was a "church and state" institution, a religious "tax" that became enforceable under law in the Middle Ages. It went to support the priesthood and to build massive cathedrals... and to pay off state officials who allowed the church to enforce the tithe... with fines and sometimes brute force if necessary. Even the Catholic Encyclopedias explain this...

The Catholic Encyclopedia (1912 edition only) says, “In the beginning .. [provision] was supplied by the spontaneous support of the faithful. In the course of time, however, as the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, and early writers speak of it as a divine ordinance and an obligation of the conscience. The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the Canons of the Council of Macon in 585.”

In the NT we see Christians giving cheerfully of what they had to give as they purposed in their own hearts. We also see them sharing their entire lives and property. Essentially, early Christians gave 100%. If there was any need among them, they sought to meet it as a congregation. They didn't pay their 10% and go home leaving a brother or sister to catch the bus. They'd have raised funds to buy them a car... or someone with two cars would have given one car.

The Christian life actually requires MORE than tithing.

[Aquila]

Really, all one has to do is do some historical research on the history of tithing through the ages to see how tithing was rejected time and time again until the institutional church partnered with the states to force this religious tax on the people. After the Protestant Reformation, some churches continued to partner with government to receive tithes. As the separation of church and state took hold, churches took the practice as a private religious practice and so we have tithing as it is understood today.

Think about it... imagine living as a poor land owner struggling to make it by and hearing how the local land baron was partnering with the diocese in order to require a "tithe" of all your land, income, crops, and livestock. The tithe wasn't seen as a blessing down through history... unless you were a Catholic Bishop or some class of royalty that the church paid in order to have a right to enforce the tithe with brute force if necessary.

[Aquila]

Some interesting, more detailed, history on tithing...

Historians usually agree that, not until A.D. 567, five hundred and thirty seven (537) years after Calvary, did the Church’s first substantial attempt to enforce tithing under its own authority appear in history! The Council of Tours in 567 and the Council of Macon in 585 enacted regional church decrees for tithing and excommunication of non-tithers, but did not receive authority from the king to enforce collection through civil decrees. It is significant that tithing did not emerge historically until the church became powerful in the secular realm. Even at this late date tithes were still only food. Eventually the Roman Church even refused to administer last rites if it was not given wealth or land in wills.

Between 774 to 777 the Frankish king, Charlemagne, destroyed the Arian Lombard kingdom which separated his empire from northern Italy. After his defeat of the Lombards, Charlemagne’s unopposed rule included northern Italy and Rome. By quoting the Mosaic Law as its authority at a Church synod, the pope finally convinced Charlemagne to allow enforced agricultural tithing in support of the fast-growing parish system of churches. In 785 Pope Hadrian attempted to impose tithing on the Anglo-Saxons. In appreciation of his church support, on Christmas Day, A.D. 800, the pope crowned Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor, thus making official the renewed “Holy” Roman Empire.

In 906 King Edgar legally enforced food tithing in England. In 1067 and 1078, at the Church Councils of Gerona, and in 1215 at the Fourth Lateran Council, tithing was increasingly applied to all lands under Christian rule. All citizens, including Jews, were required to tithe to the Roman Catholic Church. A typical peasant was giving the first tithe of his land to his secular ruler or landlord (which was often the church) and a second tenth to the church outright. In 1179 the Third Lateran Council decreed that only the pope could release persons from the obligation to tithe, and he exempted the Crusaders.

[Aquila]

The point is that all these modern day "tithe advocates" have romanticized the doctrine of the tithe and divorced it from it's history... because there isn't any history of a tithe being required of a believer for nearly the first 400 to 500 years of Christianity. In fact, history shows that until the church gained political points with local governments, every effort of councils to institute a tithe were vehemently rejected.

And where there is history of a required tithe (beginning in the Middle Ages) we see the church using political savvy to make it happen and then using excommunication and brute force to enforce it. In fact, the overthrow of the tithe features prominently throughout the Revolutionary period. I praise God that my people of beloved Ireland abolished the tithe in 1871.

Historically speaking, the tithe doctrine was often a brutal and oppressive doctrine.

[Aquila]

Two of the larger false doctrines with us today that originated in the Roman Catholic Church are the doctrines of the Trinity and that of the Tithe.