Why shouldn't I vote for Obama??

[ChristopherHall]

I don't look like a Communist either.

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I don't look like a Communist either.

ok, if you say so, lol,dt

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

So far some really bad attitudes can most likely be seen on both sides of the discussion. What’s interesting to me is that it’s almost three or four to one. Yet it’s my attitude that’s called into question. Bro….I think I’m the only one here really trying to offer a perspective from the other side. I’ve been told that I’m unchristian, called a communist, called a socialist, told that I have no right to call myself an American, and it’s been insinuated that I celebrate abortion, it’s been insinuated that I am a supporter of Che’s blood thirsty massacres just because I understand that he is a political icon among many with interests in Cuba and Central America. Then I’m criticized for typing “20 paragraphs” because I’m trying to present my views thoroughly for the sake of understanding and conversation because I’m being so blatantly misrepresented…and I’m told it’s my attitude. If I wasn’t trying to thoroughly explain and maintain a decent attitude I certainly wouldn’t write paragraph after paragraph trying to find common ground and dispel misrepresentations. These things can’t be explained on a bumper sticker. I know some here get raving cheers for one sentence answers. But I see that as far too simplistic. There are entire policy papers with pages ranging into the multiplied hundreds or thousands and everyone thinks we can some things up in 15 words or less. Politics isn’t a simplistic subject. Anyone who’s truly wanting to discuss politics with sound bit statements isn’t even scratching the surface. Not to mention the distortions and proven misrepresentations about Obama that are being repeated by men who are professed Christians who should be expected to tell the truth. That alone causes me to question the validity of our spiritual fiber. I know atheists and Muslims with a greater commitment to the facts than that.

And as far as ministry, I don’t have one. Yes, I’ve preached and ministered but I can’t do it anymore. So far I’ve heard men of God I looked up to repeating this garbage about Obama over the pulpit like its true. These things have been proven false. This isn’t a game. Truth isn’t optional. I heard a man refer to Obama as “Osama Obama” and refer to his being raised in a Midrassa twice last week. Like some wily eyed goon who not only believes anything he reads in email…but will preach anything because the pulpit causes people not to question him. With the pulpit comes the obligation to tell the truth. I can understand mentioning Obama’s political positions and specifically specifying as to why as a Christian a man might take issue with him…but all these lies and distortions about him being Muslim etc? They act more like radio talk show hosts than preachers. That’s too much for me to handle. I don’t want a ministry. I don’t want to be associated with it. Then I hear it here. I have too much respect than to stand and confront a preacher in front of his congregation. But here…here I can confront the distortions. What’s funny….I still may not even vote for Obama! LOL I’m just standing against the “slander mill” that’s spreading in our pulpits and among ministers. I’m nearly convinced of this one thing, preachers are becoming no different than politicians and lawyers. They’ll lie and propagate lies when convenient or when it suits their purposes. Right now I don’t have a ministry and don’t want one. I don’t want to be associated with it.

You would rather defend politics, than be in the ministry? Honestly, you have a right to your opinion, but don't you think that the ministry is a higher calling than politics? Brother Hall, don't stoop to the level of supporting a politician, especially if you have a calling in your life. After reading your posts on the GNC and the AFF, I know that you're opinionated (not necessarily a bad thing) and smart, but I wouldn't dare to be as passionate about politics as I would a calling that God places on your life. I really don't think that God would change his mind about your calling, do you?

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Ferd isn’t kidding. He’s demonstrated that quite well. Not once did he say,

“Oh, just kidding Bro. Chris. I just disagree. I’m sorry if you mistook me questioning your Christianity, calling you a communist, socialist, or insinuating that you’re a sympathizer with a revolutionary murderer, or insinuating that you don’t care about the value of life. I was just joking. I hope that I didn’t offend or insult you in any way.”

Here’s another observation. I’m seen as having a bad attitude because for some reason I’m supposed to be tickled about being labeled what they have labeled me…but if I call Ferd on a blatant mis-representations and slander…oh…he’s just “kidding around”. Let’s face it….political conservatives can lie and slander with impunity (thank God some political Conservatives are decent people). And more and more Christians who are political conservatives are becoming more like conservative radio talk show hosts than Jesus Christ. Nobody will call him on it. It’s almost like there’s a new hate movement and all Democrats are the targets regardless as to what they believe as individuals.

Chris, this is why I think you should leave the politics alone for a little while. Ferd has a right to his opinion as well as you, and I must admit, he will eat your lunch so to speak. I don't think that I will cast a vote for anyone in the next election (unless by some miracle Huckabee gets the nomination) as I really don't like the republican party much anymore. I pretty much could care less what other people on this forum think of me, someone else said it (I can't remember who) I do not need anyones validation, well, I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH THIS. Do you need Ferds validation? Do you need mine? How about Gods?

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

You would rather defend politics, than be in the ministry? Honestly, you have a right to your opinion, but don't you think that the ministry is a higher calling than politics? Brother Hall, don't stoop to the level of supporting a politician, especially if you have a calling in your life. After reading your posts on the GNC and the AFF, I know that you're opinionated (not necessarily a bad thing) and smart, but I wouldn't dare to be as passionate about politics as I would a calling that God places on your life. I really don't think that God would change his mind about your calling, do you?

It’s not about politics as much as it is about honesty. For example when so called Christians and “ministers” repeat debunked internet emails over the pulpit and in private conversation it proves we have little respect for honesty and that if the lie is juicy enough we will repeat until the cows come home. One minister I was listening to in person was referring to “Osama Obama” over the pulpit and insinuating that Obama was a Muslim. Then in a private conversation he goes into explaining Obama’s background, as according to the email, as though it was proven fact. I saw wide eyed trusting believers listening to this “man of God” in shock and disgust against Obama’s Islamic agenda. What gets me is that the entire mail was debunked. This minister was repeating a lie. As a minister he has the responsibility to speak the truth. He wasn’t just critiquing Obama’s politics (which I don’t even agree with some of his politics), the minister was repeating the substance of the urban legend in email. Guess what, that tells me one thing. I can’t believe what I hear over the pulpit. I was a true believer and now I don’t even trust the church. I know now why we can’t win this world. They can’t trust us to tell the truth.

Then I come here and hear the very same things. Accept here I can speak against it and inform the reader. So guess what, this political machine that seems Christian turns on me. Suddenly they’re accusing me of being a socialist, a communist, pro-abortion, pro-Che, etc. Give me a break dude. The cat’s out of the bag. Call me the whistle-blower, in the name of honesty I have to tell a lost world and immature saints that the church is lying to them.

It has nothing to do with me defending politics over being in the ministry. It’s that I can’t have complete trust or confidence in an institution that is so easily duped into believing urban legends and email rumors, only to repeat them over the pulpit and in personal conversation. It’s not about politics vs. ministry. It’s honesty vs. ministry. I’ll side with honesty. What’s being said about Obama being a Muslim, not saluting the flag, swearing in on a Koran, etc. is completely bogus (like him or not). Obama is a liberal Christian and some of his political views are problematic for conservative Christians. But the stuff these emails are saying is nothing but a bag of lies. I’d rather go to heaven telling the truth (frankly, defending a man I don’t even completely agree with) than get a pat on the back from the ministry for lying and then go to hell.

God called me to tell the truth to the best of my ability. Without that ministry means nothing. And if I tell the truth, be it about the Obama or the Canadian health care system…it’s the ministry that calls me a socialist, a communist, pro-abortion, pro-Che, etc. You know what that tells me….God didn’t call me to ministry. And frankly, I wish people would stop trying to pressure me into it. Why would God call me into something where people are so paranoid they cannot discern between fact and fiction in a freakin’ email and continue to repeat it though it’s been debunked? Get real. That’s like God calling me to be a used car salesman or a trial lawyer.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Chris, this is why I think you should leave the politics alone for a little while. Ferd has a right to his opinion as well as you, and I must admit, he will eat your lunch so to speak. I don't think that I will cast a vote for anyone in the next election (unless by some miracle Huckabee gets the nomination) as I really don't like the republican party much anymore. I pretty much could care less what other people on this forum think of me, someone else said it (I can't remember who) I do not need anyones validation, well, I PRETTY MUCH AGREE WITH THIS. Do you need Ferds validation? Do you need mine? How about Gods?

Ferd outright misrepresented me, with that he lost creditability. Of course there are those who find it entertaining that he misrepresented me. But God knows. So he can bluster, but he can’t eat my lunch. If Ferd will misrepresent me…he might misrepresent anything.

This isn’t about needing validation…it’s about discovering that as a religious movement we’re full of deceit. Like I said, it’s not just anyone here. I hear it in my own circle here where I live. It’s disturbing. Christians are supposed to tell the truth. I had to pull a person aside and say, “You know, what he said about Obama isn’t true.” They said, “But why would Bro. ****** lie?” I answered, “Check it out in the internet on FactCheck and Snopes.com. Then call me.” So they did. They couldn’t believe this brother we’re talking about would fall for such non-sense or repeat it. It’s evident you can’t trust what’s said by Christians anymore, especially when it comes to politics.

[ChristopherHall]

It all just leaves me feeling disturbed and distrusting.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Ferd outright misrepresented me, with that he lost creditability. Of course there are those who find it entertaining that he misrepresented me. But God knows. So he can bluster, but he can’t eat my lunch. If Ferd will misrepresent me…he might misrepresent anything.

This isn’t about needing validation…it’s about discovering that as a religious movement we’re full of deceit. Like I said, it’s not just anyone here. I hear it in my own circle here where I live. It’s disturbing. Christians are supposed to tell the truth. I had to pull a person aside and say, “You know, what he said about Obama isn’t true.” They said, “But why would Bro. ****** lie?” I answered, “Check it out in the internet on FactCheck and Snopes.com. Then call me.” So they did. They couldn’t believe this brother we’re talking about would fall for such non-sense or repeat it. It’s evident you can’t trust what’s said by Christians anymore, especially when it comes to politics.

Which is why we should leave politics alone Chris. If we leave politics alone, then we wouldn't have to worry about telling a misconception. I really do not believe that the ministry is telling a lie as much as they are giving thier own opinion however misguided it may be. The notion that I'm getting from you, is the fact that it seems as if though you cannot talk about anything other than politics. Have some fun, avoid politics for awhile. I don't see Ferd always talking about politics
BTW, the ministry isn't perfect; whenever you have the HUMAN element, you'll miss perfection every time. You and I have had some pretty tough dialogue, but in the end, it isn't worth having a coronary, and it isn't worth beating a dead horse. I hope you well, and can't wait to finally meet you. God bless you Chris!

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Ferd outright misrepresented me, with that he lost creditability.

You are correct. Ferd took a cheap shot and misrepresented you. I daresay this thing has seemed to have gotten heated at times such that young and old alike behave with youthful zeal and indiscretion.

Of course there are those who find it entertaining that he misrepresented me. But God knows.

At this point only God and Ferd know whether he was trying to be mean or funny. I certainly hope Ferd will come along and clarify

So he can bluster, but he can’t eat my lunch.

I'm an optimist. He might be able to do BOTH!

If Ferd will misrepresent me…he might misrepresent anything.

At the end of this path we'll find the joke about the man who doesn't want to go to church because of all the hypocrites in there . . . come on down, we've got room for one more!

This isn’t about needing validation…it’s about discovering that as a religious movement we’re full of deceit. Like I said, it’s not just anyone here. I hear it in my own circle here where I live. It’s disturbing. Christians are supposed to tell the truth.

Take another two steps back and realize that our mythical virtuous and moral American civilization is fading from memory and ALL of American life is growing more and more full of deceit.
So NOW our TRUE problem isn't that "Christians" are deceitful - it's that they aren't truly coming out of the world and being separate.

I had to pull a person aside and say, “You know, what he said about Obama isn’t true.” They said, “But why would Bro. ****** lie?” I answered, “Check it out in the internet on FactCheck and Snopes.com. Then call me.” So they did. They couldn’t believe this brother we’re talking about would fall for such non-sense or repeat it. It’s evident you can’t trust what’s said by Christians anymore, especially when it comes to politics.

When I was in engineering school I attended a youth conference wherein a guest speaker announced that NASA scientists had spotted an asteroid of the EXACT same dimensions of the city of the Lamb described in Revelation, and it was heading straight towards earth. That was my touchstone moment in my new Pentecostal experience, where I realized that NOT EVERYTHING THAT COMES OVER THE PULPIT IS COMING STRAIGHT FROM GOD.

You are correct that the times they're a-gettin' perilous. However it is and always has been our individual duty to discern the truth and the truthful. Both in the church and on the way in.

You are doing a great thing by pushing back against the established mindsets and concepts. Whatever is creaky and deficient will not stand.

I have no desire to hurt you, Christopher Hall. I confess I have a desire to persuade you to understand that the underlying premises, modus operandi, and true end goals of today's leftists are not something to be desired.

God Bless you. Don't lose hope.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

You're emotionally unbalanced or something.

LOL. I guess that's the best you've got.

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I never said that the Founders were equivalent to terrorists. I said that in the British mind they were. The Founding Fathers were considered "revolutionaries" and "rebels". We see them attacking British interests with acts like those seen in the Boston Tea Party. Now, I stand behind the Founding Fathers. But back in the day some British political nut would argue (like you are) that I was standing behind revolutionaries that have destroyed expensive British assets and who were provoking a war.

And then you compared that to our need to be "understanding" of the "terrorists." And then you brought out the cannrad, "One man's revolutionary is another man's terrorist," thus making the the equivalance arguement that you now deny making.

Usually such gaffs as yours are attributable to another person's emotionally unbalanced adherence to a loosing proposition. But you're "too smart" for that? Sad.

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I know it's a bit complex in it's rationale, but it's true.

For all I know those people just see Che as a symbol of revolution. They may not even agree with all of his tactics. For all I know those people might have family who died in Che's rebellion and the flag is a reminder to them to stand for Democracy. [/quote]
When given an on vcamera opportunity to explain the flag they refused to even discuss it. We linked to their pervarications already for you.

For all I know, they may have mixed up Che's image with that of Scooby Doo. But their own words and actions belie that.

People who lost family in the Cuban "revolution" tend to abhor the Cuban dictator Castor (who "retired" yesterday) and to revile his henchmen. People who support Castro and the communist regime while opposing democratic values fly Che's flag.

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Without being in their heads I don't know exactly what they think. But from dealing with people from different countries and systems I do realize that they may have a vastly different opinion on a matter than I do. And they don't see themselves as terrorist nutcases.

Sad. You just can't come right out and say, "I have no idea what the debate about Cuba involves and until now had never even heard of Che."

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I think Obama cleared it up when he expressed that it was inappropriate and didn't represent his personal views.

[quote=ChristopherHall;393617]
For crying out loud. As I said above, I know Neo-Nazis that vote strictly Republican tickets. They have Swastikas hanging in their offices. Am I to assume, as you are assuming that Democrats favor Che's rebellion, that for some reason Republicans are Neo-Nazis?[quote]
Name a single "Neo-Nazi" that "vote[s] strictly Republican tickets." One. You can even make up a name, but try and provide some sort of documentation for it. It's so obvious to everyone else that you just make up your smears and rationalization. Let's see how far you're willing to go.

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

These are nutcases. And only nutcases are going to take them seriously.

In the previous paragraph they were merely misunderstood and I was being unfair to suspect they had communist sympathies just because they fly a communist Cuban flag in their handsome offices. Then, without even pausing to take a breath you tar them as "nutcases."

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

You know, I'm starting to realize, you guys aren't too bright. LOL

LOL. Do you even read your own post? After saying this you whine that Ferd takes a "cheap shot."

This is why people with your mindset are so dangerous when they're in government. You espouse ridiculous ideas, flip flop alol over the map, squirm and whine when cornered; and then come away convinced of your own supperiority.

Your mind is so clouded by your own ego that you can't see how desperately in need of help you really are. Instead you profess to have all the answers.

"Don't worry, I'm with the government!" is your motto. And that is why people like you end up bobbing in the harbor with the broken crates of your tyrannical bureaucracy completely perplexed over how you could have been so "misunderstood."

Your cluelesssness is of the type that it causes people to suffer. Better that you were just a religious bigot in a suit somewhere in the private sector than a government bigot dictating how others are supposed to live their lives.

You took the first "cheep shot", Chris. Then you want pity for the aftermath; so typical of the "union thug." You would do well to try and understand your own countrymen, the ones you profess to be capable of leading. And then get out of their way.