Should a Christian celebrate Christmas ?

[drummerboy_dave]

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Don't be a Holiday hater!!!! Ain't nothing wrong with being festive about the birth of Jesus or celebrating His resurrection.

But why use pagan customs to do it?

BTW the scripture you gave doesn't apply to the subject. It's refering to the jewish holydays.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sister Phyllis

Should a Christian Celebrate Christmas?

There is no Biblical warrant, precedent, nor precept for remembrance of the day of Christ's birth as a day of special religious celebration. This is not to say that we shouldn't remember Christ's birth and its significance, but for religious commemorations or celebrations, we must have Biblical command or precedent! The fact of the matter is this -- the early church did not celebrate Christ's birth, but such celebration only came into the church with the "Christianization" of pagan rites as Catholicism was made the state religion by Constantine in the fourth century A.D. Since the Word of God does not support the tradition of Christmas, a Christian's conscience ought not and must not be bound.

The following outline describes the origin of Christmas (with its associated pagan customs, symbols, and terminology), details the Scriptural support against celebrating Christmas, attempts to show that celebrating Christmas violates the spirit of every one of the ten commandments, attempts to demonstrate that celebrating Christmas does not fall in the realm of Christian liberty, and attempts to debunk eight of the major rationalizations Christians put forth for celebrating Christmas.

I. The Origin of Christmas

A. A Long Evolution -- Christmas customs are an evolution from times long before the Christian period -- a descent from seasonal, pagan, religious, and national practices, hedged about with legend and tradition. Their seasonal connections with the pagan feasts of the winter solstice relate them to ancient times, when many of the earth's inhabitant's were sun worshipers. As the superstitious pagans observed the sun gradually moving south in the heavens and the days growing shorter, they believed the sun was departing never to return. To encourage the sun's return north (i.e., to give the winter sun god strength and to bring him back to life again), the sun gods were worshipped with elaborate rituals and ceremonies, including the building of great bonfires, decorating with great evergreen plants such as holly, ivy, and mistletoe, and making representations of summer birds as house decorations. The winter solstice, then, was the shortest day of the year, when the sun seemingly stood still in the southern sky. Observing the slowdown in the sun's southward movement, and its stop, the heathen believed that their petitions to it had been successful. A time of unrestrained rejoicing broke out, with revelry, drinking, and gluttonous feasts. Then, when the pagans observed the sun moving again northward, and a week later were able to determine that the days were growing longer, a new year was proclaimed.

B. Not Among the Earliest Christian Festivals -- Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. It was not celebrated, commemorated, or observed, neither by the apostles nor in the apostolic church -- not for at least the first 300 years of church history! History reveals that about 440 A.D., the Church at Jerusalem commenced the celebration of Christmas, following the lead of Roman Catholicism (see I.C.). It was sufficient for the early Christians that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, had been born. They praised God that Jesus Christ had, indeed, come in the flesh. The day and the time of His birth had no relevance to them, because Jesus was no longer physically on earth. He had returned to heaven. And it was the risen, exalted Christ to whom they looked, and that by faith -- not a babe laid in a manger. Jesus Christ is no longer a baby; no longer the "Christ-child," but the exalted Lord of all. And He does NOT somehow return to earth as a baby every year at Christmas-time -- though this is the impression given even in certain hymns sung in Protestant services. (See sub-report.)

C. The Role of Religion in Ancient Rome -- Seemingly forgotten is the essential role religion played in the world of ancient Rome. But the Emperor Constantine understood. By giving official status to Christianity, he brought internal peace to the Empire. A brilliant military commander, he also had the genius to recognize that after declaring Christianity the "state" religion (Constantine forced all the pagans of his empire to be baptized into the Roman Church), there was need for true union between paganism and Christianity. The corrupt Roman Church was full of pagans now masquerading as Christians, all of which had to be pacified. What better way than to "Christianize" their pagan idolatries. Thus, the Babylonian mystery religions were introduced by Constantine beginning in 313 A.D. (and established a foothold with the holding of the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.). The Constantine-led Roman Church was more than willing to adapt and adopt pagan practices in order to make Christianity palatable to the heathen. Constantine used religion as a political tool, totally devoid of any true spirituality:

Pagan rituals and idols took on Christian names (e.g., Jesus Christ was presented as the Sun of Righteousness [Malachi 4:2] replacing the sun god, Sol Invictus ).

Pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holidays (holy-days).
December 25th was the "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival in the pagan Babylonian world. In the ancient Roman Empire, the celebration can be traced back to the Roman festival Saturnalia, which honored Saturn, the harvest god, and Mithras, the god of light; both were celebrated during or shortly after the winter solstice (between the 17th and 23rd of December). To all ancient pagan civilizations, December 25th was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a "regeneration of nature." Moreover, all of December 25th's Babylonian and Roman festivals were characterized by 5-7 day celebration periods of unrestrained or orgiastic revelry and licentiousness.

December 25th was particularly important in the cult of Mithras, a popular deity in the Old Roman Empire. Robert Myers (a proponent for celebrating Christmas) in his book Celebrations, says:

"Prior to the celebration of Christmas, December 25th in the Roman world was the Natalis Solis Invicti, the Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun. This feast, which took place just after the winter solstice of the Julian calendar, was in honor of the Sun God, Mithras, originally a Persian deity whose cult penetrated the Roman world in the first century B.C. ... Besides the Mithraic influence, other pagan forces were at work. From the seventeenth of December until the twenty-third, Romans celebrated the ancient feast of the Saturnalia. ... It was commemorative of the Golden Age of Saturn, the god of sowing and husbandry."

In order to make Christianity palatable to the heathen, the Roman Church simply took Saturnalia, adopted it into Christianity, and then eventually many of the associated pagan symbols, forms, customs, and traditions were reinterpreted (i.e., "Christianized") in ways "acceptable" to Christian faith and practice. (In fact, in 375 A.D., the Church of Rome under Pope Julius I merely announced that the birth date of Christ had been "discovered" to be December 25th, and was accepted as such by the "faithful." The festival of Saturnalia and the birthday of Mithras could now be celebrated as the birthday of Christ!) The pagans flocked into the Catholic places of worship, because they were still able to worship their old gods, but merely under different names. It mattered not to them whether they worshiped the Egyptian goddess mother and her child under the old names (Isis and Horus), or under the names of the "Virgin Mary" and the "Christ-child." Either way, it was the same old idol-religion (cf. 1 Thes. 1:8-10; 5:22 -- Paul says to turn from idols, not rename them and Christianize them). Roman Catholicism's Christmas Day is nothing but "baptized" paganism, having come along much too late to be part of "the faith once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3).

D. "Christianization" of Pagan Customs, Symbols, and Terminology -- Christianity had to undergo a transformation so that pagan Rome could "convert" without giving up its old beliefs and rituals. The actual effect was to paganize official Christianity. "'A compound religion had been manufactured, of which ... Christianity furnished the nomenclature, and Paganism the doctrines and rights.' The idolatry of the Roman world, though deposed from its ancient pre-eminence, had by no means been demolished. Instead of this, its pagan nakedness had been covered with the garb of a deformed Christianity" (W.E. Vine). Pagan customs involving vestments, candles, incense, images, and processions were all incorporated into church worship and continue today.


Continuied inpart 2
sister phyllis

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So one pagan act justify another???

Not a good arguement to use to justify pagan customs to offer God in celebrating Jesus birth.

What is the problem with his birth. How do you celebrate Easter... Or should I call it by the pagon name "Easter"?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

What is the problem with his birth. How do you celebrate Easter... Or should I call it by the pagon name "Easter"?

No one is speaking against his birth. The qustion why use past pagan customs to celebrate his birth??

No I don't do easter.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The good doctor is very fond of you.

The feelings are very mutual, I assure you. He's a true gentleman and has been a friend to me for many, many years.

[stasis]

Prayer for the Christ Mass:

"Dear, Jesus, I know you told us that the customs of the heathen are vain, and you told us not to learn the way of the heathen.

I know that you told us that philosophy, vain deceit, and traditions of men and rudiments of this world would spoil us and lead us into captivity, which is darkness, if we follow these traditions or rituals.

Jesus. I realize you told us not to add or diminish from your Word. And I know you said your Word was pure, and I understand you said your word is unchangeable, but you won’t mind if we keep a drunken pagan festival in your honor as long as we change the name so it sounds kind of Christian even though it is fire worship. You won’t mind, will you?

Now, Jesus, we’re not going to be able to stop the drunks and the pagan worshippers from continuing to keep their customs. There will be a record number of suicides this time of year. The poor will feel oppressed, but we will take a dinner to them at xmas time and tell them we’ll be back again next year.

And Jesus, we know there will be a record number of wrecks caused by drunk drivers, and the liquor stores will be thrilled to see the season come. Playboy Magazine even has a special Christmas edition, and adultery will run rampant as husbands and wives abandon their vows at drunken parties.

And you will be real happy when you’ll hear my ideas, Jesus

We’ve gone back in history and found fire worshippers of the ancient world who had a festival that went from December 17 thru December 25. That was the birthday of their fire god Mithra or Hercules, and they worship pagan gods.

Now, Jesus, here is my idea. We are going to take this drunken festival of Saturn or Saturnalia, and we're going to put your name on it. We will call it Christmass, but we’ll drop the last S to disguise it and keep it from looking like Roman Catholicism, OK?

They offered their children in the fire and ate them, and I assure you Jesus that most of the world will be celebrating this festival in drunken revelry the same way they did thousands of years before you were born, but I want you to believe me when I tell you, we don’t do it that way.

And when they ask us why we are dragging the church into something so evil, I’ll tell them “Well, we don’t do it that way, we are using paganism to glorify God.”

Jesus, Doesn’t that make you happy. You don’t mind, do you? After all, preachers say it’s OK as long as we use this pagan festival to spread the gospel. If they say it,You won’t mind, will you? I promise Jesus we’re not going to keep the customs of the heathen like they keep them; we’re going to keep them different. You won’t mind if we do this, will you, Jesus?"

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by stasis

Prayer for the Christ Mass:

"Dear, Jesus, I know you told us that the customs of the heathen are vain, and you told us not to learn the way of the heathen.

I know that you told us that philosophy, vain deceit, and traditions of men and rudiments of this world would spoil us and lead us into captivity, which is darkness, if we follow these traditions or rituals.

Jesus. I realize you told us not to add or diminish from your Word. And I know you said your Word was pure, and I understand you said your word is unchangeable, but you won’t mind if we keep a drunken pagan festival in your honor as long as we change the name so it sounds kind of Christian even though it is fire worship. You won’t mind, will you?

Now, Jesus, we’re not going to be able to stop the drunks and the pagan worshippers from continuing to keep their customs. There will be a record number of suicides this time of year. The poor will feel oppressed, but we will take a dinner to them at xmas time and tell them we’ll be back again next year.

And Jesus, we know there will be a record number of wrecks caused by drunk drivers, and the liquor stores will be thrilled to see the season come. Playboy Magazine even has a special Christmas edition, and adultery will run rampant as husbands and wives abandon their vows at drunken parties.

And you will be real happy when you’ll hear my ideas, Jesus

We’ve gone back in history and found fire worshippers of the ancient world who had a festival that went from December 17 thru December 25. That was the birthday of their fire god Mithra or Hercules, and they worship pagan gods.

Now, Jesus, here is my idea. We are going to take this drunken festival of Saturn or Saturnalia, and we're going to put your name on it. We will call it Christmass, but we’ll drop the last S to disguise it and keep it from looking like Roman Catholicism, OK?

They offered their children in the fire and ate them, and I assure you Jesus that most of the world will be celebrating this festival in drunken revelry the same way they did thousands of years before you were born, but I want you to believe me when I tell you, we don’t do it that way.

And when they ask us why we are dragging the church into something so evil, I’ll tell them “Well, we don’t do it that way, we are using paganism to glorify God.”

Jesus, Doesn’t that make you happy. You don’t mind, do you? After all, preachers say it’s OK as long as we use this pagan festival to spread the gospel. If they say it,You won’t mind, will you? I promise Jesus we’re not going to keep the customs of the heathen like they keep them; we’re going to keep them different. You won’t mind if we do this, will you, Jesus?"

Yawn.

Come up with something original.

[OneAccord]

While I don't subscribe to the "Christmas is paganism" position, I think we should show a measure of respect for those who maintain this position. Nothing is accomplished by making fun of those brothers or sisters who hold to their convictions. There are a number of convictions and beliefs posted on this forum I do not agree with. And, there are beliefs and convictions that I hold that others may not support. To discuss them is one thing, but, as Christians, we should keep things civil. I believe that is a "posting requirement" as well.

[IAintMovin]

If yall think I am gonna read all those first post............you got another thing coming........but in answer to the question............if anybody should celebrate Christmas, Children of God should..................duhhhhhhhh.............