I did not say working against ME, I said IN MANY WAYS working against the LOCAL UPC ASSEMBLY.
I honestly don't care one way or the other. To me, if the Kingdom is built, go for it! But put yourself in the position of that local home missions church pastor that is struggling to grow his church, and along comes a man IN HIS ORG, and goes across town to hold a crusade for a NON UPC church.
My first impression is that the evangelist must be too big to go help the home missions church, cause they will not be able to give him a BIG OFFERING.
Of course all this is supposition because you have not really presented ALL the pertinent info for us to come to a really logical and balance conclusion on the matter.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'working against the local assembly'.
I have been to several church services, even Youth Congress, in which ALJC ministers have preached and spoken. In no way were they 'working against the local assembly'. They were merely preaching.....not starting a church or proselytizing. I'm not understanding how local preachers would become upset about that. Isn't the message the same, no matter what org one belongs to, if any at all?
In addition, according to DA's post, the home pastor had recently gone independent. It's possible that this crusade was set up months in advance, and it therefore was ok for the UPC preacher to preach it. When the pastor went independent, it wasn't ok.
Something smells funny, and it isn't the kitty litter in my basement.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Folks, I am just not as good as DA in playing the DA.
I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
I personally want the Kingdom of God to be built if every UPC Evangelist starts going into the Baptist churches across town, winning them, and converting their churches into Apostolic believing churches. An Evangelist really should be an Outside Representative of the Church, not a inside fixture.
I hope I am not understanding what your saying. What I read here is that the UPCI evangelist would be working against the UPCI church if he preaches for a church in that city not in the org.
I preach in some towns for the UPCI one night and the ALJC the next. It is not working against anyone. We are all part of the Kingdom of God.
Timely words fitly spoken! Establishing territiory is empire building, preaching the Word of God is Kingdom establishing!
When I came to the Cincinnati area in 1957 I attended the only UPC assembly here. It was started in 1925 with about 12 people. Of course that was before the UPC was formed. The founding pastor of the Cincinnati church was from Bishop G.T. Haywood's church in Indianapolis. He, his family, and some friends started the church with some folks who had split from another OP church here.
In 1945 there was a split. A group left the UPC assembly and established another church. I have no idea what organization it may have been at first. At one time the pastor was with a group called AMC (Apostolic Missionary Council). Later the pastor was with the ALJC. This church was referred to as "the church on the hill" by folks at the UPC church because for a while they were meeting in a building on a hill.
When I came down here in 1957 I lived for a while with one of the families who were part of that UPC church. I came here with one of their sons who had been a room mate at ABI. Shortly after arriving, the young man who had been my room mate saw an ad in the newspaper for a meeting at the church on the hill. The minister who was coming was Bro. Gordon Magee. We had heard him at the church in St. Paul. My friend quickly contacted our UPC pastor, who was also the DS for Ohio, and Bro. Magee was not allowed to visit the church on the hill. My friend was very smug about what he had done but it really bothered me. Something about it just didn't seem right to me.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Folks, I am just not as good as DA in playing the DA.
I HATE POLITICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
I personally want the Kingdom of God to be built if every UPC Evangelist starts going into the Baptist churches across town, winning them, and converting their churches into Apostolic believing churches. An Evangelist really should be an Outside Representative of the Church, not a inside fixture.
Matthew, that is what is so stupid about the whole thing.
This DS would ecstatic if someone was preaching at the Baptist church across town because he would hope and pray he could "raid" their membership roll when all those folks were filled with the Holy Ghost.
So it would not bother you if some big name UPC preacher came to your city and preached in the local ultra con church across town, and drew some of the saints that God has called you to watch over to the ultracon church?? You would be ok with possibly loosing saints to another church that could afford the big gun??
If you are, then you are probably a bigger man than I, cause I would have some issues with it.
Matt, having lived in the Bible belt of the nation, this happens all the time.....one church will have a crusade or conference and people from surrounding churches will visit. It's on off-church nights most of the time, and the pastors had no problem with it. And their people came back 'home' when it was over.
I used to attend the largest church in southern Illinois, and we had lots of crusades and conferences, including concerts and such. People from all over the area from other UPC church came. We didn't get bigger because of what we were able to do that those smaller churches couldn't.
If one is happy at 'home', they won't seek to be moving, no matter how green the grass is on the other side.
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I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
And you have personal knowledge that the issue was given to the DS weeks prior to his doing this, and he simply waited until the last minute out of a mean spirit to cause problems with the non UPC church??? Could it be that the DS got the complaint and immediately made the call after reviewing it???
Like I said, we don't have all the fact of the case to really give this a credible judgment, if our judgment would be credible at all.
And it can also be said of the DS. Maybe he didn't have all the facts. What DeltaSoundman posted states that the local bishop placed a call. Yet, a day before the meeting was to occur, a "ruling" is passed by the DS. Sounds too fishy to me! Obviously, a "mean spirit" seemed to eke out of the local bishop!From what info I have gathered, this meeting has been in place for weeks. The local bishop had plenty of time to stop it from happening!
And it can also be said of the DS. Maybe he didn't have all the facts. What DeltaSoundman posted states that the local bishop placed a call. Yet, a day before the meeting was to occur, a "ruling" is passed by the DS. Sounds too fishy to me! Obviously, a "mean spirit" seemed to eke out of the local bishop!From what info I have gathered, this meeting has been in place for weeks. The local bishop had plenty of time to stop it from happening!
Maybe the Local Bishop spent a season in prayer and fasting to make sure he had the right spirit prior to complaining????
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