The [Apostolic] Prosperity Gospel

[Nitehawk013]

I'm looking into it. I am looking into a neighboring town that has no Oneness church at all. I would like to get a bible study or two going and see if they would be willing to open their home to begin trying to do house church.

Eventually I would like to get a small building to rent for more traditional meetings. I think utilizing both methods is the best way of having church. However, this is all dependant upon God leading and helping me to open doors.

[Aquila]

Remember, the early church didn't have a NT. They only had the Law. IF they tithed anything, it would have been to the Levites at the Temple in accordance to the Law. The moment Christianity abandoned the authority of the Levites and the Jewish system (who rejected the Gospel), they became focused on being self sustaining communities. In these communities everything was shared, and they didn't tithe. Paul wouldn't receive tithes... he was of the tribe of Benjamin. Nor was Peter a Levite. All offerings were based on need. Also remember, there weren't salaries in those days. If Peter had need of a horse to travel, someone in the church would provide it, or they'd take up an offering to buy one for him. The early church had no buildings or storehouses in which to store a "tithe". Think about it... those smaller thatch roofted houses would have little room for gold, trinkets, fur pelts, grain sheaves, etc. The notion that they tithed to Christian leaders is pure silliness. They did something far better than paying a tithe and walking away... they shared their entire lives in community.

Pastors who teach that Christians are BOUND by the tithe and must or perish are guilty of extortion. Although, in their defense, most were not taught any better.

[Titus2woman]

We have never attended a chruch where the pastor was bivocational, each one made their living from the tithe. And a good living too. Our last church built a HUGE building (one of the nicest in the UPC) while we were there. We heard over and over how the pastor had given a million dollars of his own money to the building fund... No mention was ever made that the million came from money he has collected from the membership over the past 35+ years. Also he plans to 'hand down' the church to one of his sons... So basically he is securing his families future with his money as that church is quite a cash cow.

Our present church just did a big renovation on the sanctuary and the fellowship hall... we have families going without medical care and maybe even food... but that building is sure purdy now. And the pastor has a new lake house I hear...

So if your pastor is bivocational... well I still wonder at one man leading the masses without oversight... but at least he is paying his own way to do it.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I'm looking into it. I am looking into a neighboring town that has no Oneness church at all. I would like to get a bible study or two going and see if they would be willing to open their home to begin trying to do house church.

Eventually I would like to get a small building to rent for more traditional meetings. I think utilizing both methods is the best way of having church. However, this is all dependant upon God leading and helping me to open doors.

Are you ready for this kind of thing? Hypothetically speaking... What if they don't want a smaller building? Often, the elder is challenged to hear the will of the Lord... through the body. Hense being a servant of God's elect.

The church I attend has all Christian backgrounds in it (but they are mostly Baptist). We have well over 70 house churches, many are branches that aren't registered. In all we have nearly 2,000 members. We also have a rather large campus. More traditional meetings are held on Sunday afternoons. However, most teaching, discipleship, and spiritual discipline is carried out in the house churches. It's a great way to do church.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I'm looking into it. I am looking into a neighboring town that has no Oneness church at all. I would like to get a bible study or two going and see if they would be willing to open their home to begin trying to do house church.

Eventually I would like to get a small building to rent for more traditional meetings. I think utilizing both methods is the best way of having church. However, this is all dependant upon God leading and helping me to open doors.

I will add you to our prayers.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

We have never attended a chruch where the pastor was bivocational, each one made their living from the tithe. And a good living too. Our last church built a HUGE building (one of the nicest in the UPC) while we were there. We heard over and over how the pastor had given a million dollars of his own money to the building fund... No mention was ever made that the million came from money he has collected from the membership over the past 35+ years. Also he plans to 'hand down' the church to one of his sons... So basically he is securing his families future with his money as that church is quite a cash cow.

Our present church just did a big renovation on the sanctuary and the fellowship hall... we have families going without medical care and maybe even food... but that building is sure purdy now. And the pastor has a new lake house I hear...

So if your pastor is bivocational... well I still wonder at one man leading the masses without oversight... but at least he is paying his own way to do it.

This kind of thing angers me so much. I've seen it and experienced it too. I honestly feel that many people leave the church to keep their Christianity. When I left church for the house church movement I experienced the greatest spiritual season of my life meeting at a simple coffee shop and in a brother's living room. You wouldn't believe how many "traditional" Christians who attended a church would come to these fellowship meetings. They felt their spiritual needs being met, and we allowed them to remain members of their individual churches. I remember asking the elder, Scott, about why he doesn't establish a "membership". He answered, "Chris, these are Christ's sheep, not mine. They may come and go as they wish. My home is open to nurish them in all that they need should they come. But they don't belong to me." Scott, a resigned baptist pastor from TN, started an independent house church network of about 8 house churches. None claimed membership. He collected no tithes or offerings. He was a truck driver for a local delivery company to support his family. I asked him if he saw his house church as a "church". He answered, "No. We're a family." I loved that time. I haven't seen Scott in ages, my journey took me into a larger and more organized house church network. But I do miss that time.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I can only imagine how our individual images of tithing became so disparate; but I have never felt "extorted," and would laugh in the face of anyone who made the claims that your shorthand (I presume) above attributes to "tithing." I would have to get my ducks lined up to present a good argument, here, but this seems to be a great description of what tithing is not? Without even looking, Christ Himself as much as said that extorted money is not a tithe?

bbyrd009, You are fortunate to never have experienced some of what I consider malarkey when it comes to tithing.
You are blessed for never feeling "extorted", but I can tell you names and places in years gone by where people lived on food stamps, lost businesses, and even borrowed money to pay tithes because they were (for the lack of a better description) guilted - or extorted - into paying tithes. The worst thing any minister can say about NT tithing is that it is a NT commandment, not much unlike the claim by some pastors that it is God's tithe. The comment Jesus made to the Pharisees about tithing mint, anise and cummin was a rebuke to their own sense of importance over their own understanding of the minutae of the Law while overlooking the things that God considers important...
Yes, having finances is necessary in order to minister to the poor, the orphans, widows, sick and imprisoned but the tithing system became outdated when the old lamb was replaced by the Lamb of God, the laver of water replaced by the "sprinkling of the word", and the Holy of Holies replaced by the Holy Ghost. Behold ALL things are become new.

It is neither a New Testament "obligation" (although most apostolic pastors will disagree vehemently because it touches their income level), nor is it God's tithe, because every requirement of the Law was and is fulfilled in Jesus Christ alone. There are far too many examples for me to give you of people I know personally that have either had to apply for assistance, lose a business, or alter their lifestyle (which conversely increased the lifestyle of the pastor), some even borrowing money over the sense of guilt applied. The extortion and/or guilt over tithing is group-think that is promoted by lead pastors. I am glad that you have never had to experience it.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Sabby

The extortion and/or guilt over tithing is group-think that is promoted by lead pastors. I am glad that you have never had to experience it.

Wow, definitely sad. I have heard of this, and I see how it isn't really fair to expect people in different situations to react as I might.
I "tithe," but it is from joy, and I've always felt that God doesn't need, and likely doesn't want, any money in the equation.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Oh yeah, the Pastor is the Watchman that watches for your soul! I Guess the pastor is the paid one!

I've never had a Pastor who cared enough for my soul to minister to me. But they sure did take my money pretty quick.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Pastors who teach that Christians are BOUND by the tithe and must or perish are guilty of extortion. Although, in their defense, most were not taught any better.

You know, this is a true statement.

Most Pastors have been taught that this is the way it is and most of them, not all, for some reason do not have the spiritual fortitude to buck the system. And yes, it is a system.

It's like doctors, who take care of their own and cover their fellow physician's mistakes up.

If honest-hearted people who used to tithe until they see the money being grossly misused by some can research in the bible itself to find the truth, why can't preachers be honest-hearted enough to teach that there is no tithe paying but for the people to be cheerful givers?