HMD, Coon & DKB recognize past failures - Page 7

DAII · #61 08-10-2010, 06:14 PM

Although this type of transparency is refreshing in admitting that the home missionary program has been an epic failure - what does this say to those who are already fermenting a distrust in the bureaucracy and outstretched hand of "big brother"?

I think this only validates the notion that the local church is more effective than sustaining paper pushers at the WEC. If the HMD director readily admits his and the policies of his predecessors have tanked and that the local pastor is more effective at planting churches - why do we need an HMD director?

And why is it Foreign Missions has had some measure of success?

Blubayou · #62 08-10-2010, 06:24 PM

I find this kind research and transparency refreshing. Maybe, just maybe this will bring about some restructuring of the organization. For too long, these trends have been brushed under the rug and denied. Only when we admit there is a problem and study it can we come up with solutions.

ILG · #63 08-10-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

Consider what is asked of a young minister in the UPC.

First, when he feels a call to preach, he is told to attend an unaccredited UPC Bible College. He is asked to pay thousands of dollars (around 20k) to earn a theological or ministerial degree which is as worthless as the paper it's printed on.

As time progresses, and he attempts to earn a living while fulfilling his calling, he finds that 1) very few ministers are full time and, 2) secular employers have no desire to hire a worker with an unaccredited theological or ministerial degree.

This creates frustration, and a feeling of betrayal.

Later, as he becomes increasingly uncomfortable in his home church, and wants to branch out on his own, 1) his pastor will tell him that it is not God's will, 2) his pastor will give him a bit more string but still maintain control, 3) he will branch out on his own with absolutely no financial support.

In all of these situations he is asked to foot the bill entirely. He receives little to no support. All while he becomes increasingly aware of theological inconsistencies within the movement he serves.

Yep, and don't forget secular employers don't want to hire someone who moonlights as a pastor.

tssp · #64 08-10-2010, 11:45 PM

While reading through this a couple of question came to mind.

1. Is Rex Johnson still UPC? I thought he just spoke at the ACN conference, or am I thinking of the wrong person?

2. Why doesn't the UPC rewrite its rules/bylaws since large amounts of it's followers pay no attention to the rules against going to amusement parks, movie theaters and organized sports events? Isn't it time to update?

Sam · #65 08-10-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tssp

...Why doesn't the UPC rewrite its rules/bylaws since large amounts of it's followers pay no attention to the rules against going to amusement parks, movie theaters and organized sports events? Isn't it time to update?

You mean, move the goal line to where the ball is?

canam · #66 08-11-2010, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tssp

While reading through this a couple of question came to mind.

1. Is Rex Johnson still UPC? I thought he just spoke at the ACN conference, or am I thinking of the wrong person?

2. Why doesn't the UPC rewrite its rules/bylaws since large amounts of it's followers pay no attention to the rules against going to amusement parks, movie theaters and organized sports events? Isn't it time to update?

How dare you say that ? they dont do that!! they go to Silver Dollar city and those Branson Shows ,Dollywood ,Busch Gardens ,Six Flags over hell anywhere and IMAXs . THATS DIFFFERENT ! there is better sinners there, then at MLB,NBA,NFL,AND NHL games,thems those evil athletes. Ps, the wec website says RJ still is , if that is current

DAII · #67 08-11-2010, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tssp

While reading through this a couple of question came to mind.

1. Is Rex Johnson still UPC? I thought he just spoke at the ACN conference, or am I thinking of the wrong person?

2. Why doesn't the UPC rewrite its rules/bylaws since large amounts of it's followers pay no attention to the rules against going to amusement parks, movie theaters and organized sports events? Isn't it time to update?

Rex is still very much UPCI ....

https://wec.upci.org/ministers

DAII · #68 08-11-2010, 08:04 AM

CP425 has its own Twitter page ...
http://twitter.com/cp42

Some interesting tweets:

Quote:

7 of 10 churches that start as a daughter church survive while only 3 of 10 "parachute" church plants (someone going it alone) survive
11:00 PM Jul 13th via TwInbox

Going it alone? Parachuted? ... I thought they had the full backing of HMD behind them? Home missions pastors and missionaries ... along with those who have donated millions to HMD to plant new churches... need to know that the HMD thinks they are going it alone.

----------------------------------------------

Quote:

N Central Louisiana Thank God for great churches and an average of 1 UPC church per 15,000 people. How does that ratio compare to your area?
Thu Jul 29 2010 23:52:44 (Central Daylight Time) via TwInbox

What are the turf wars like? Good thing N. Central Lousiana is covered. What's the ratio of saved churches in NYC?

--------------------------------------------

Quote:

Avg church plant (under 5 years old) averages 39 in attendance. Does the avg. oldr church add 39 in 5 years? Church plants are effective!

Only 39 people in 5 years (?) and what of the established churches with higher attendance apparently leaving at the same rate? No wonder there are cutbacks at the WEC?!

Quote:

Every "legacy" church began in a store-front or something similar. Which church now being planted will be a "legacy" church in 50 years?
Thu Jul 08 2010 16:45:26 (Central Daylight Time) via UberTwitter

How many "legacy churches" have been lost in the last 3 years? What do you do in the interim 47 years?
-------------------------------------

Quote:

Planter Suarez (Virginia) has had 17 visitors in the past 2 weeks. Started as daughter chrch by Mike Blankenship. Churches planting churches

.
*cough, cough* ... Is this church independent now from the mother church? And how smooth was the transition?

------------------------------------------

Quote:

Church Planter Jon Buckland is headed to Cleveland to get started. His new church is going to have the DNA of a church planting churches.
Fri Jul 02 2010 11:54:30 (Central Daylight Time) via UberTwitter

You forgot to add ... a good .... very progressive church!

Blubayou · #69 08-11-2010, 09:38 AM

Loving the info. Thanks Dan- I do not do twitter so keep it up.

Charnock · #70 08-11-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Avg church plant (under 5 years old) averages 39 in attendance. Does the avg. older church add 39 in 5 years? Church plants are effective!

This is an interesting quote.

IMO, new churches are more inclusive - perhaps out of necessity. They use people who don't always look the part and the org looks the other way because a church plant hasn't had time to fully integrate "the look."

However, a legacy church is held to a completely different set of rules. No room is given for variance.

The evidence proves that legacy churches are hurt by enforcing standards and that, if the UPC continues to lose legacy churches (perhaps because they feel handcuffed by higher expectations) the org, as a whole, will become more and more lenient.