New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance

[MrsMcD]

I must not be comprehending some of this conversation. If I had not been baptized yet and I repented of my sins today, why would God not immediately forgive me. Am I missing something?

[TCSQ]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

From another thread:

Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...

FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!



Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?

I can't speak for Mizpeh, but is it possible that she actually is implying that sins are not REMITTED or WASHED AWAY at repentance? Wether one agreed with that or not it would not be the same as saying they were not forgiven.

The analogy that is so simple to grasp (again agree with it or not, it is NOT NONSENSICAL) is that of a child who comes in filthy and the parent scolds the child! I TOLD you not to get dirty! And the child cries and says "I'm sorry please forgive me!" where upon the parent DOES. however Forgiven is not WASHED and that is the analogy I have heard and lend much credence to on a SCRIPTURAL basis in the matter called SALVATION.

Paul in Acts 22 clearly tells us that AFTER his experience on the road to Damascus, AFTER he had met the risen Christ, he was instructed AFTER that to arise and be baptized and WASH AWAY HIS SINS.....

So to many many brethren there does indeed appear to be a WASHING AWAY process in water baptism AFTER coming to Christ.
Maybe Miszpeh is referring to that ... I don't know, but the rush to attack rather than clarify is getting kind of interesting all in its own right.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Joelel

True faith brings forth good works.



James, chapter 2
1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5: Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6: But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7: Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8: If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13: For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Correct, Peter is admonishing these believers for saying they are Christians yet not acting like Christians. They were being infiltrated by people using Christianity like a status symbol.

True faith will always bring about good works. However, obedience is not a condition of justification. When we truly turn our hearts toward God and have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit there begins a WORK OF GOD in our life that will always result in good works.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

I must not be comprehending some of this conversation. If I had not been baptized yet and I repented of my sins today, why would God not immediately forgive me. Am I missing something?

What many people miss is,we must continue in his word or walk in the light to have remission of sins.If you hear you must repent and be baptized and be filled with the Holy Ghost and then only repent your sins are not forgiven because you failed to continue in the light.If you hear you must have good works and don't then forgiveness is no longer given because you are not walking in the light.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

I must not be comprehending some of this conversation. If I had not been baptized yet and I repented of my sins today, why would God not immediately forgive me. Am I missing something?

I am like you. Our sins were taken care of at Calvary. The blood was applied at Calvary. It is up to me to repent and place my faith in what Christ did for me at the cross.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Joelel

What many people miss is,we must continue in his word or walk in the light to have remission of sins.If you hear you must repent and be baptized and be filled with the Holy Ghost and then only repent your sins are not forgiven because you failed to continue in the light.If you hear you must have good works and don't then forgiveness is no longer given because you are not walking in the light.

I think you are mistakenly trying to link justification with sanctification. We are justified by faith, and should allow the Holy Spirit to work in our lives after we are saved in a process called sanctification.

If sanctification were linked with salvation then at anytime you aren't walking perfectly in line with God then you are doomed to Hell. Only one person ever lived a perfect life and that was Christ. Your comments do not line up with the Gospel.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Maybe Bernard is not as far off from Mizpeh as we think:



http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...al/New-Ch5.htm

Most 3 steppers I've encountered ... even here say Forgiveness happens at repentance .... while remission happens at water baptism.

I believe Elder Epley would agree this is the common notion among 3 step theology

Firstly I have never claimed to be a 3-stepper. Acts 2:38 is the only way for men to be saved since Pentecost.
However Dan is correct sins are forgiven at repentance but not remitted until they are baptized in Jesus Name. My thoughts on this is simple I am a simple person sins were forgiven in the OT but NOT remitted. Man's sins were remitted at Calvary by the blood and through baptism in Jesus Name the penitent recieves that benefit recieved by his shed blood.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Firstly I have never claimed to be a 3-stepper. Acts 2:38 is the only way for men to be saved since Pentecost.
However Dan is correct sins are forgiven at repentance but not remitted until they are baptized in Jesus Name. My thoughts on this is simple I am a simple person sins were forgiven in the OT but NOT remitted. Man's sins were remitted at Calvary by the blood and through faith in Jesus work on the cross the penitent receives that benefit received by his shed blood.

I agree 100%

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Correct, Peter is admonishing these believers for saying they are Christians yet not acting like Christians. They were being infiltrated by people using Christianity like a status symbol.

True faith will always bring about good works. However, obedience is not a condition of justification. When we truly turn our hearts toward God and have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit there begins a WORK OF GOD in our life that will always result in good works.

My friend,James said,24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Do you not have to obey to have works.You must obey to have the work of repentance and baptism and being filled with the Holy Ghost.We are justified also by works .If you say you have faith will you not obey the works of repentance and being baptized ?

Acts 5:[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
[33] When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Firstly I have never claimed to be a 3-stepper. Acts 2:38 is the only way for men to be saved since Pentecost.
However Dan is correct sins are forgiven at repentance but not remitted until they are baptized in Jesus Name. My thoughts on this is simple I am a simple person sins were forgiven in the OT but NOT remitted. Man's sins were remitted at Calvary by the blood and through baptism in Jesus Name the penitent recieves that benefit recieved by his shed blood.

Elder .... did you vote?