Look at what it says, not once does the text inform us this was NOT really Samuel. Not once does it say they merely THOUGHT it was Samuel. Not once does the text correct the situation to inform us this was just her familiar spirit.
1Sa 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul."
Why did she cry out? What was unusual about this than any other time?
1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth."
1Sa 28:14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
Why does the narrator say Saul KNEW it was Samuel and not Saul THOUGHT it was Samuel?
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." Why does the writer here not say "the familiar spirit said ot Saul"?
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy?
Would a lying spirit really say this? Would not the spirit attempt to deceive Saul and give him the information he hoped to attain about attacking the philistines?
1Sa 28:17 The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me, for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. He confirms what was already said to Saul by Samuel before he died.
1Sa 28:18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. He reminds Saul why the LORD has turned his back on Saul. He is confirming Samuels previous rebuke to Soul
1Sa 28:19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."
He gives a prophecy. Did this come true? Was this a lying spirit prophesying in the name of the LORD and coming true????
1Sa 28:20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.
The narrator of the story speaks again. Notice this is not the witch speaking or Saul. This is the person that wrote the book of Samuel. So he has this opportunity to say "because of the words of the familiar spirit" but consistently the narrator in his own words calls this Samuel
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Look at what it says, not once does the text inform us this was NOT really Samuel. Not once does it say they merely THOUGHT it was Samuel. Not once does the text correct the situation to inform us this was just her familiar spirit.
1Sa 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul."
Why did she cry out? What was unusual about this than any other time? 1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth."
1Sa 28:14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
Why does the narrator say Saul KNEW it was Samuel and not Saul THOUGHT it was Samuel?
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." Why does the writer here not say "the familiar spirit said ot Saul"?
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy?
Would a lying spirit really say this? Would not the spirit attempt to deceive Saul and give him the information he hoped to attain about attacking the philistines?
1Sa 28:17 The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me, for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. He confirms what was already said to Saul by Samuel before he died.
1Sa 28:18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. He reminds Saul why the LORD has turned his back on Saul. He is confirming Samuels previous rebuke to Soul
1Sa 28:19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."
He gives a prophecy. Did this come true? Was this a lying spirit prophesying in the name of the LORD and coming true????
1Sa 28:20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.
The narrator of the story speaks again. Notice this is not the witch speaking or Saul. This is the person that wrote the book of Samuel. So he has this opportunity to say "because of the words of the familiar spirit" but consistently the narrator in his own words calls this Samuel
Good logical sense means nothing here. Some will subjectively change what the Scripture says or just plan deny it without any manuscript evidence at all. "I don't agree so it must be wrong".
__________________ "I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it."
Good logical sense means nothing here. Some will subjectively change what the Scripture says or just plan deny it without any manuscript evidence at all. "I don't agree so it must be wrong".
true. Thanks Dave
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
It is my believe the witch did NOTHING. As I have said several times now the witch did not raise Samuel. God did it.
Actually the bible reads the witch conjured (to summon a devil or spirit by invocation or incantation) Samuel.
1 Samuel 28:11
"Whom should I conjure up for you?" the woman asked. "Conjure up Samuel for me," he answered
Bring Up/Conjure: (aw-law') A primitive root; to ascend, iarise (up), (cause to) ascend up, bring (up), shoot forth (up), (begin to) spring (up), stir up, take away (up), work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
God never said or declared he would never address Saul in any manner.
God rejected advising Saul through Samuel while alive, how is Samuel's death any different? What God had determined while Samuel lives was in effect after Samuel's death.
1 Samuel 15
29) He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
Also, if you remove the italics, here's what the scripture reads:
1 Chr 10:13 (without italics)
So Saul died his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking of a familiar spirit, to inquire;
1 Chr 10:13 (with italics)
So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Additionally, if this was not Samuel WHY would he rebuke Saul? Why would a false spirit speak the truth and rebuke Saul?
Actually the bible reads the witch conjured (to summon a devil or spirit by invocation or incantation) Samuel.
1 Samuel 28:11
"Whom should I conjure up for you?" the woman asked. "Conjure up Samuel for me," he answered
Bring Up/Conjure: (aw-law') A primitive root; to ascend, iarise (up), (cause to) ascend up, bring (up), shoot forth (up), (begin to) spring (up), stir up, take away (up), work.
No it reads "whom should I conjure up for you"..it does not read "the witch conjured up Samuel", which begs the question of my other post you did not address. Why was she shocked at the results?
Quote:
God rejected advising Saul through Samuel while alive, how is Samuel's death any different? What God had determined while Samuel lives was in effect after Samuel's death.
1 Samuel 15
29) He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
What verse are you referring to where God says He will never again speak to Saul through Samuel?
Quote:
Also, if you remove the italics, here's what the scripture reads:
1 Chr 10:13 (without italics)
So Saul died his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking of a familiar spirit, to inquire;
We all agree Saul sought after a Medium with a Familiar spirit. That does not mean that was the result he got. In fact the text implies it was something entirely different
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Look at what it says, not once does the text inform us this was NOT really Samuel. Not once does it say they merely THOUGHT it was Samuel. Not once does the text correct the situation to inform us this was just her familiar spirit.
1Sa 28:11 Then the woman said, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" He said, "Bring up Samuel for me."
1Sa 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul."
Why did she cry out? What was unusual about this than any other time?
1Sa 28:13 The king said to her, "Do not be afraid. What do you see?" And the woman said to Saul, "I see a god coming up out of the earth."
1Sa 28:14 He said to her, "What is his appearance?" And she said, "An old man is coming up, and he is wrapped in a robe." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground and paid homage.
Why does the narrator say Saul KNEW it was Samuel and not Saul THOUGHT it was Samuel?
1Sa 28:15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" Saul answered, "I am in great distress, for the Philistines are warring against me, and God has turned away from me and answers me no more, either by prophets or by dreams. Therefore I have summoned you to tell me what I shall do." Why does the writer here not say "the familiar spirit said ot Saul"?
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said, "Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has turned from you and become your enemy?
Would a lying spirit really say this? Would not the spirit attempt to deceive Saul and give him the information he hoped to attain about attacking the philistines?
1Sa 28:17 The LORD has done to you as he spoke by me, for the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. He confirms what was already said to Saul by Samuel before he died.
1Sa 28:18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD and did not carry out his fierce wrath against Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. He reminds Saul why the LORD has turned his back on Saul. He is confirming Samuels previous rebuke to Soul
1Sa 28:19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."
He gives a prophecy. Did this come true? Was this a lying spirit prophesying in the name of the LORD and coming true????
1Sa 28:20 Then Saul fell at once full length on the ground, filled with fear because of the words of Samuel. And there was no strength in him, for he had eaten nothing all day and all night.
The narrator of the story speaks again. Notice this is not the witch speaking or Saul. This is the person that wrote the book of Samuel. So he has this opportunity to say "because of the words of the familiar spirit" but consistently the narrator in his own words calls this Samuel
Bump
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Are you saying that it's wrong to compare different versions? Which version is the right one?
What I'm saying, Larry, is that you have a tendency to rewrite what God is saying in His Word to suit what you think. I've seen you do this on more than one topic. The Bible says it was Samuel speaking to Saul. Instead of taking God's Word at face value, you want to come along and say it wasn't Samuel speaking, but the familiar spirit. The Bible doesn't say that. It says it was Samuel. In order to say it wasn't Samuel, you have to edit the Word to fit what you think it's saying. That, my friend, is dangerous ground to build on. Feel free to edit the Word of God to your heart's content, Larry. Far be it from me to tell you to stop. Don't expect me to go along with it, however.
No it reads "whom should I conjure up for you"..it does not read "the witch conjured up Samuel", which begs the question of my other post you did not address. Why was she shocked at the results?
As you stated above, it reads "whom should I conjure up for you." My question, who is stating they're willing to conjure a spirit?
Also, the witch became frightened after discovering it was Saul who petitioned her. As I stated earlier, Saul had issued a decree to destroy all witches, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
What verse are you referring to where God says He will never again speak to Saul through Samuel?
1 Samuel 15:29- God refused to converse with Saul any longer. God wouldn't have changed his mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
We all agree Saul sought after a Medium with a Familiar spirit. That does not mean that was the result he got. In fact the text implies it was something entirely different
If you remove the italics, the scripture plainly reads Saul with communicating with a familiar spirit.
Every English version on BibleGateway.com says, in v 15, that Samuel spoke to Saul. What's the LCFV (Larry's Contradiction Free Version) going to say? Give us a sneak preview!
LCFV says: "If the KJV says, 'that Samuel spoke to Saul, then the familiar spirit was named Samuel'."
:w histle
__________________
The Gospel of Jesus Christ: Jesus bore away my sins, my sickness, and my poverty. That covers it all. Everything else is just legalism.
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