((((((((((((TULSA BOMBSHELL))))))))) "49 Elders" Explained!! See this LIST

[PreacherV]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

You are mistaken. I know men whose names appear on this list who pastor churches which have NEVER been affiliated, and they are STILL not giving up their UPC license. In fact, I spoke with one just the other day. He is serving in a District level position within the UPCI and has no plans to get out.

Time will tell. I don't doubt your friend's intentions, but he will eventually be forced to pick one over the other. (Let me know as soon as it happens!) Whether he wants out or not, his affiliation with WPF will probably hurt his chances of re-election the next time his district-level position is voted on. if he hasn't surrendered his oopsee card by then, being voted out might hasten his departure.

The affiliation thing does not necessarily apply to churches that have NEVER been affiliated. I know we have several churches that have never been affiliated and that does not necessarily reflect that a minister is leaving...but the ones that are suddenly disaffiliatiing and their names are suddenly being added to the WPF roster....they will eventually end up in one or the other or neither, but not both. Again, this is a prediction...please update me when it proves correct.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by PreacherV

Time will tell. I don't doubt your friend's intentions, but he will eventually be forced to pick one over the other. (Let me know as soon as it happens!) Whether he wants out or not, his affiliation with WPF will probably hurt his chances of re-election the next time his district-level position is voted on. if he hasn't surrendered his oopsee card by then, being voted out might hasten his departure.

The affiliation thing does not necessarily apply to churches that have NEVER been affiliated. I know we have several churches that have never been affiliated and that does not necessarily reflect that a minister is leaving...but the ones that are suddenly disaffiliatiing and their names are suddenly being added to the WPF roster....they will eventually end up in one or the other or neither, but not both. Again, this is a prediction...please update me when it proves correct.

I tend to agree with your prediction.

[SoCaliUPC]

Is this new organization licensing ministers to their fellowship?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

Is this new organization licensing ministers to their fellowship?

No. That is why they are not calling it an "organization," but rather, a "fellowship."

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

Is this new organization licensing ministers to their fellowship?

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

No. That is why they are not calling it an "organization," but rather, a "fellowship."

I think it will "test" the water before diving in....but in doing so they have marked themselves I think.. it will be interesting to see how it all turns out...

Different Meetings...Different Camp Meetings...Different Youth Rally's... and so on...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

No. That is why they are not calling it an "organization," but rather, a "fellowship."

This is distinct to what Steadfast and CS have claimed ...

they have stated on the forum that ministers in the WPF will have 2 choices to prospective members:.

1. A license
2. non-license membership.

Are you now stating that the WPF has changed it's mind or that the previous information was inaccurate?

[Kansas Preacher]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This is distinct to what Steadfast and CS have claimed ...

they have stated on the forum that ministers in the WPF will have 2 choices to prospective members:.

1. A license
2. non-license membership.

Are you now stating that the WPF has changed it's mind or that the previous information was inaccurate?

I don't think there has EVER been plans to offer credentials. I spoke with Brother Booker early on during this process, and he told me then that they were not going to offer credentials. I think the "two-tiered" membership is something different than what you have described.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

No. That is why they are not calling it an "organization," but rather, a "fellowship."

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This is distinct to what Steadfast and CS have claimed ...

they have stated on the forum that ministers in the WPF will have 2 choices to prospective members:.

1. A license
2. non-license membership.

Are you now stating that the WPF has changed it's mind or that the previous information was inaccurate?

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher

I don't think there has EVER been plans to offer credentials. I spoke with Brother Booker early on during this process, and he told me then that they were not going to offer credentials. I think the "two-tiered" membership is something different than what you have described.

It seems then ... there is no consensus as to the offering of licenses ...

Coon and Dean ... (I slipped and accidentally said Steadfast) ...

Have an alternative view, it seems, as it pertains to licensing and the WPF

This is a discussion we had in the Ministerial Ethics thread a few weeks ago ...

Originally Posted by The Dean

What some fail to realize is that, most likely, the vast majority of those who go to Tulsa will remain in the UPC and network with the conservative element represented in Tulsa.

Originally Posted by The Dean

The network they are trying to put together does not require or expect one to get out of the UPC. Asking a friend to network with those most aligned with his beliefs is NOT asking someone to leave the UPC.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Similar to the NCO?

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Will this network be licensing ....??? If it is ... can one hold 2 licenses?

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I understand that they will be offering two levels of membership--licensing for those who desire it, and a fellowship level association for those who do not.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The latter will allow for dual membership, then ....

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

But I believe ... the UPCI bylaws do not allow holding dual licenses? Is this correct?

Originally Posted by The Dean

The second will NOT be a 'license' for an organization but a 'fellowship card' for a ministerial fellowship.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

The fellowship level association will not be a license, per se.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Semantics, perhaps, but within the bounds of propriety.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I understand the attempt to circumve .... I mean choice.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Does the UPCI manual allow for DUAL LICENSES?

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Then why keep bringing up the deal about the UPC not allowing dual licensing?

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

You know it doesn't, and yes it circumvents the rule about dual licensing.

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Why not?

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

It seems then ... there is no consensus as to the offering of licenses ...

Coon and Dean ... (I slipped and accidentally said Steadfast) ...

Have an alternative view, it seems, as it pertains to licensing and the WPF

This is a discussion we had in the Ministerial Ethics thread a few weeks ago ...

You don't mean it!?? Two men who have never claimed to be a part of the Tulsa leadership and whose names do not appear on the list of leaders can't come to consensus as to whether or not the fellowship will offer licenses? I am sure that in some way that this just goes to show how unethical and unprincipled the organizers really are!

This has got to be SOTD!!
Scandal Of The Day

[Coonskinner]

I mentioned what I had heard through the proverbial grapevine. It appears it was innacurate.