The Persecution of Women in the Church

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

He did not state that the Bible is the infallible Word of God.

Fine distinction there.

He denies parts of the Scripture.

You can't have it both ways.

Hmmm...well, Dr. Coonskinner, it seems to me that when one picks and chooses which part of truth they will embrace as truth, that is heresy.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Subdued

I'm sorry - I missed it. Did you answer yes or no?

He posted this:

You have to be kidding. The bible was written 2K years ago in a different civilization. We cannot even begin to compare our western mentality to the Jewish enviornment of that day. God's word is His word, not ours. Paul clarified this many times when he stated this is from me and not from God. Of course Paul wrote out of his own personal experiences as we all do. The cultural differences of our day are incomprehensible. To think anything else is pure ignorance. Sorry. I belive God's word is true and believe God is infallible, but not man. Everybody but Jesus has problems friend. We are all broken trying to let Jesus pick up the pieces.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

He posted this:

Are you denying that at times Paul did not simply give advice .... such as: It is better not to marry ....??? Is this from God's mouth or the author's opinion?

[Sister Alvear]

The catacombs in Rome, especially the Priscilla Catacomb, portray many women in prayer postures normally reserved for men. One fresco of the late first century shows a woman breaking bread at an early eucharist (most of the participants look like women). Another painting (from the second century) shows a woman veiled, praying. In fact, the frescoes portray Aorant@ (praying) women more often than men--hands raised in the leadership role.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I haven't kept up with the last few pages of this thread, but I would like to offer the following simple observation.

The worst problems in the church I pastor can be traced to a perversion of the original roles God intended men, women, and children to play.

Families, and the church, struggle when men are lazy and refuse to support the family unit they helped create. We suffer when women attempt to usurp spiritual leadership and authority. We suffer when children dictate the direction and mood of the home.

It grieves me to see the family unit under attack by well-meaning individuals within the church. These folks have fallen for a perverted worldview that despises masculine leadership and pastoral authority.

In the overwhelming majority of motion picture and television content, Hollywood - with the full force of it's bully-puplit, assaults the nuclear family unit. An agenda is quite obvious. The agenda is to promote "individualism" in the hopes of separating families from each other.

This is why sitcoms usually portray men as bumbling boobs who are incapable of rational thought. This is why women are normally shown as intellectually superior. This is why parents often defer to the greater wisdom of nine year old children in most Disney programming.

Make no mistake about it, the nuclear family is an endangered species. All because love has no strings attached, parents are friends instead of teachers, and the only men worthy of respect are limp-wristed, effiminate metrosexuals.

Just headed for my break here but I wanted to applaud this post!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Are you denying that at times Paul did not simply give advice .... such as is better not to marry ....??? Is this from God's mouth or the author's opinion?

I think Paul specifically clarified that he did that twice. Very, very few times.

Compare that to his post here:

I've been in ministry 23 years, I know the bible like the back of my hand. Ignorance is not bliss. What you don't know can hurt you. Try doing a scholarly research on the Pauline epistles. There's a lot in the bible that is not God's direct word to us today. The bible is a series, a collection of books spanning many generations. God wrote His word through man. Man is fallible, God isn't. What part of that do you have a problem with? A simple study of the new testament manuscripts reveals error, some dating earlier do not have the same scriptures. Wake up dude, we walk by faith.

This from the guy who said I was too educated, and quoted "ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

His scholarly pursuits led him to the conclusion above, while I am over-educated.

Right.

[SDG]

Folks what's unApostolic about this? Didn't Paul do this at times? Does this make God's Word any less infallible?

You owe this man an apology.

Paul clarified this many times when he stated this is from me and not from God. Of course Paul wrote out of his own personal experiences as we all do. The cultural differences of our day are incomprehensible. To think anything else is pure ignorance. Sorry. I belive God's word is true and believe God is infallible, but not man. Everybody but Jesus has problems friend. We are all broken trying to let Jesus pick up the pieces.

[Sister Alvear]

If Jesus had not wanted women messengers, then He defeated His own purpose when He permitted them to be witnesses and commanded them to go tell. Quite interestingly, He told the women to deliver the good news to men. Jesus was not prejudiced in His use of women.

While it is true we are redeemed that does not mean that women should trample over men swinging their bibles. I do not write this with that kind of spirit.

Most women who claim to have been called by God and are used to preach the Gospel have been persecuted for it. We must be careful whom we oppress and persecute. When Saul of Taurus was persecuting the Christians, the new body of believing saints of God, the Lord Jesus Himself asked Saul, “Why are you persecuting me?" Although he was in fact persecuting men and women, he was really persecuting Jesus.

When you persecute those who are in Christ Jesus, it is a theological fact that you are persecuting Jesus. Didn’t one of the Old Testament writers that wrote, "Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm…" (Psalms 105:15). King David knew in his heart to touch one of God’s anointed would be only asking for trouble from God. I wonder if those who persecute women of God really know what they are doing? I agree 100 percent that if everyone was doing their job, performing their function in the body of Christ many things could be done differently.

The plan of God was not just revealed to men but to women as well in the Old Testament. It was to Rebecca not to Isaac that God disclosed that Jacob was favored over Esau. It was not Barak whom God chose to judge Israel and to lead an army, but it was Deborah the notable prophetess.

There was even a time when Moses the great lawgiver was saved by an entire group of women. It was Esther that He chose to preserve a nation. It was to Samson’s mother not his father that the angel gave instructions. When the priest and scribe asked for a word from the Lord they came to Huldah. It was to her and not to her husband, nor to the prophet Jeremiah that the word of the Lord came. Abraham heard God say, "Listen to Sarah's voice. Romans 16:1-2 reads that Phoebe had labored with the Apostle. In Romans 16:3, Pricilla is called by Paul, my helper, fellow helper RV. Romans 16:12 Salute Trephine and Tryphosa, who labor in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. Trephine, and Tryphosa, women, and who labored much in the Lord. These are all women; yet the same apostle that wrote I Corinthians 14:34 said in I Corinthians 16:16, that ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboreth. (Be in subjection, RV) to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth. The submit yourselves does not convey the idea of a man kneeling at a woman’s feet or visa versa.

[Subdued]

If God's Word is not infallible, on what, then, can we rely????

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The catacombs in Rome, especially the Priscilla Catacomb, portray many women in prayer postures normally reserved for men. One fresco of the late first century shows a woman breaking bread at an early eucharist (most of the participants look like women). Another painting (from the second century) shows a woman veiled, praying. In fact, the frescoes portray Aorant@ (praying) women more often than men--hands raised in the leadership role.

Very interesting. I was raised in the hispanic apostolic church where the woman wore veils. My family still does. We were told in the UPC that the womans hair is her covering...interesting.