The High Price of Intentional Indiscretions

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

I remember a few years ago that I was preaching for a young couple that I have spent much time trying to help. They had seen, firsthand, some element of hypocrisy in ‘high places’ and I honestly believed that – because of their confidence in my ministry - I could help reestablish their hearts back to a sure spiritual foundation.

I spent entire week with them and was to culminate on a Friday night with a big rally at their Church. Each night they seemed to look and conduct themselves as being genuinely Apostolic. However, on that Friday I overheard them in a fairly heated argument (I was staying in their home) and repeatedly heard the woman saying, “Even if you don’t believe it I think it’s the wrong way to prove it!”

I wandered back to my room to get far enough away that embarrassment might not be a factor. Imagine my shock, however, when I walked out ready to go to Church and saw the young ‘Pastor’ in a casual shirt and pants. He had some kind of a huge ring on his hand. Each night before he was dressed in a suit and no ring whatsoever. Just about the time that I gathered my composure his wife walked around the corner. She was wearing a skirt about 4 inches above her knee, a blouse so sheer you could see her slip and enough makeup to replenish Maybelline. Each of the other four nights she was the epitome of holiness and modesty.

Not the best way to make a statement, obviously. Though I find something interesting . . .

For four nights everything was dynomite . . .

Then on the fifth night everything suddenly changed . . .

Hello discernment? Nope, not here . . .

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by SarahElizabeth

What if you can't allow yourself to get out - but you feel that some things that are taught are in error?...ie. preaching that facial hair on men is wrong, preaching that even wearing watches will send you to hell, preaching that it's wear long sleeves or you're hell bound?

What's a person to do?....Not meaning to be rebellious, these people who don't agree with the standards, but can't leave, are at best misunderstood and at worst excommunicated. Any opinions from anyone? I've prayed Lord, please don't let me end up like the people in this story, but sometimes all of the mentioning of standards as being what makes us holy gets a little overwhelming in some churches. I want to keep "standards," but outward "standards" are not what make me holy. The beauty of holiness - in my opinion - is the beauty of being complete in Him - to have taken on His Spirit and bearing His fruits - not the fruits of long sleeves and no watches. Just my opinion. Please no attacks.

The couple mentioned in the first post were despicable. They showed very poor judgment - actually no wisdom or finesse.

SE--Please explain. Why, in free America, could a person not be allowed to leave what they don't agree with? That's the beauty of our country. Are you saying that they couldn't leave without losing relationships with family, or what?

[Sister Alvear]

Sherri..I think that is what she is saying...losing relationships...

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

Not the best way to make a statement, obviously. Though I find something interesting . . .

For four nights everything was dynomite . . .

Then on the fifth night everything suddenly changed . . .

Hello discernment? Nope, not here . . .

I sincerely don't understand your post... the last line for sure.

The services seemed to be fine all week until the last night. Several reasons for that I suspect:
* Culture shock to their own Church family to have their Pastor's wife come in looking like a high class prostitute.
* Other Churches showing up wondering what in the world was going on with a 'pinky ring' playing Pastor and a song service led by Tammy Faye's first cousin.

Or let's try this... REBELLION trying to prove to everyone just what their brand of rebellion acted like. I know a lot of 'liberal' people who have more dignity than to make an intentional effort to be dingbats.

Yep. That usually affects a service for sure. :sshhh

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

I sincerely don't understand your post... the last line for sure.

The services seemed to be fine all week until the last night. Several reasons for that I suspect:
* Culture shock to their own Church family to have their Pastor's wife come in looking like a high class prostitute.
* Other Churches showing up wondering what in the world was going on with a 'pinky ring' playing Pastor and a song service led by Tammy Faye's first cousin.

Or let's try this... REBELLION trying to prove to everyone just what their brand of rebellion acted like. I know a lot of 'liberal' people who have more dignity than to make an intentional effort to be dingbats.

Yep. That usually affects a service for sure. :sshhh

I definitely agree that this couple was completely ignorant with their "statement." For them to choose that time and place was incredibly selfish and self-serving.

However, this didn't just happen. It began long before that last night.

My last line is to question why it seemed to surprise so many people. There had to have been clues, had to have been times before that things were said or the spirit was manifest.

I'm just surprised there was no one discerning enough to know beforehand.

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

I definitely agree that this couple was completely ignorant with their "statement." For them to choose that time and place was incredibly selfish and self-serving.

However, this didn't just happen. It began long before that last night.

My last line is to question why it seemed to surprise so many people. There had to have been clues, had to have been times before that things were said or the spirit was manifest.

I'm just surprised there was no one discerning enough to know beforehand.

Oh, trust me, we knew there were problems. Remember that I started the post by saying that I was there to help them because of some 'problems'.

Again, the core of my initial post was to say that I see that same kind of thing happening on a larger scale in some of our Pentecostal environments when statements are intentionally made, actions are intentionally perpatrated and questionable things are openly flaunted before people they know have different core values.

In any case, thank you for the clarification.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Oh, trust me, we knew there were problems. Remember that I started the post by saying that I was there to help them because of some 'problems'.

Again, the core of my initial post was to say that I see that same kind of thing happening on a larger scale in some of our Pentecostal environments when statements are intentionally made, actions are intentionally perpatrated and questionable things are openly flaunted before people they know have different core values.

In any case, thank you for the clarification.

In cases like this, I can't imagine how their spiritual life is right in God's eyes. Understand, I'm more moderate and have questions on dress standards . . . however, when things are done like this, in this way, with such open arrogance and rebellion . . . I can't imagine how it could please God.

This wasn't something done in a right spirit. It was done out of flesh.

And that's simply wrong.

[LadyCoonskinner]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

Unfortunately, idiots like this couple are the face that the conservatives put on those that dare to disagree with given rules and regulations! It sounds to me that this couple's rebellious nature would have doomed them even if they had taken a sudden confusing ultra-con slant and started putting everyone at the rally in hell for wearing sleeves that didn't cover their elbows, etc. The "let's show them!" attitude stinks to the high heavens!
I believe that certain "civil disobedience" is needed to effect change when some rules and regulations are too stringent. But....going to the extreme to make a statement at a highly visible event is wrong, and shows a rebellious spirit!

PM, I haven't read this whole thread, but, bro, I think you missed the boat on this one. This isn't about lib versus con, this is about core beliefs. What's on the absolute inside of you.

Not all conservatives have an agenda to put everyone in hell that doesn't agree with them. I do not consider myself hard core conservative, but I am conservative in MY beliefs, but don't expect everyone to feel and act and think just exactly like I do.

I believe we'll all be surprised at who stands beside us in heaven.

Originally Posted by Falla39

Bro. Strange,

I posted this in another thread sometime ago. About twelve years ago

on a Sunday morning , a situation had arisen that I felt so very alone.

As I thought on the situation that had brought me to this place, the

One who stood with me whispered, "There is my Will and there is man's will.

There is my plan (or agenda), and there is man's plan (or agenda). You

must quickly discern the difference". It was a good lesson for me and

it caused me to have the ultimate confidence in my LORD and GOD!!

Because of that experience I probably will never be the same. Don't even

want to be the same. God is great and greatly to be praised.

Blessings,

Falla39

Amen sister.

It boils down to two options. Will you lean on the Iron Rod of God's authority or will you lean on the broken reed of Egypt that will surely pierce through your hand.

It boils down to two options. Will you seek to be approved of God caring not how well you are approved of men, while recognizing that seeking only the approval of God that any approval given of men is from the God whom you seek to please? Or will you tacitly seek to be approved of God while seeking to be approved of men? The former will be hard to the flesh which will surely result in disappointments in fragile men but hope and glory in the end, while the latter can result in the same and yet NEVER have the approval and acceptance that one is willing to sell their souls for. Seeking after fickle, fleeting approval in the end will result in the greatest disappointment.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by LadyCoonskinner

PM, I haven't read this whole thread, but, bro, I think you missed the boat on this one. This isn't about lib versus con, this is about core beliefs. What's on the absolute inside of you.

Not all conservatives have an agenda to put everyone in hell that doesn't agree with them. I do not consider myself hard core conservative, but I am conservative in MY beliefs, but don't expect everyone to feel and act and think just exactly like I do.

I believe we'll all be surprised at who stands beside us in heaven.

LS, you have an excellent spirit!

As someone else mentioned in this thread, this couple's spirit had effected their core beliefs long before it was manifested. I'm like Felicity in that I can't stand folks who enjoy flaunting their freedom in front of conservative folks!