Angels reproducing with humans possible?

[shazeep]

yes, i agree there; if one's question is simply one of curiosity, Scripture is not likely to help. But this seems to have application, no? i note that the Book of Enoch is in some canons...but bizarre, yes.

[mfblume]

Sorry for repeat post. Not sure what happened there.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, i agree there; if one's question is simply one of curiosity, Scripture is not likely to help

Agreed.

[shazeep]

in that vein, i found this while delving into the Book of Jasher, that has some relevant, perhaps, things to say on this subject. (Not sure where this guy is going as regards monotheism, as he seems to put emphasis on the "Us" and "We" references of God to Himself; but i typically ignore people's pov to read between the lines)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vi...watchers10.htm

[Carl]

Originally Posted by shazeep

in that vein, i found this while delving into the Book of Jasher, that has some relevant, perhaps, things to say on this subject. (Not sure where this guy is going as regards monotheism, as he seems to put emphasis on the "Us" and "We" references of God to Himself; but i typically ignore people's pov to read between the lines)
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vi...watchers10.htm

I did'nt know that the book of Jasher actually still existed after thousands of years. The book of Joshua does reference it though.

[shazeep]

ya, me neither! of the...13? books mentioned in the Bible that are not Apocrypha, i guess it's the only one left?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

They do however demonstrate current ideas in the milieu of 3-1st century BC and 1-2nd century AD judaism.

True. They knew the language best. They knew the commonly embraced understanding at the time, better than ourselves. What was that view??? Did they see any issue with fallen angels taking fully functional physical forms?

[shazeep]

the link does get into who the 'sons of God' are, and outlines the diff in Seth's progeny (the Watchers) v Cain's, etc. interesting.

[Aquila]

We read something interesting in both II Peter and Jude...

2 Peter 2:4-5 (ESV)
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Also...

Jude 1:6-7 (ESV)
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Here we read about a specific class of fallen angel that was bound on account of an especially heinous sin. Please note, Satan isn't bound. He is the god of this world. Satan's demonic army of rebellious fallen angels are still wreaking havoc, they are not bound as these angels are. What was their sin? Why would God essentially be harder upon them than Satan himself?

Notice, Peter and Jude offer no explanation for their readers. Therefore, it is implicit in the text that both Peter and Jude assumed their readers would know exactly what they were referring to. This goes back to the previous question regarding the most ancient understandings of the passage in Judaism and even early Christianity. What would the common believer with Jewish background believe concerning these "angels that sinned"?


P.S.
I believe the ESV rendering is grammatically correct. Considering all rules of grammar, does not the passage in Jude liken the sin of these fallen angels to the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities? Thereby implying... a "sexual sin" of seeking "strange flesh"... a blurring of firmly established lines?

[Aquila]

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that this demonic "lust" was one that accompanies a need or desire for sex. Angels are sexless spirits. However, it was a lust for the daughters of men that these beings my abuse them and use them to accomplish a blasphemous and diabolical plan. They sired the Nephilim. The Nephilim, Giants, that resulted from a number of these unions (and apparently unions that took place after the flood) were therefore a class of demon/human spawn. They were attempting to create an army of imitation "Christs"... Jesus Christ being God/man. This was a blasphemous mockery of God's plan regarding the incarnation and a bold and daring attempt to hijack man's worship by giving demon/human "Christ figures". These Nephilim are the demigods of legend, false Christs (Hercules, Perseus, Zethes, Iasus, Dardanus, Polyphemus, and others). Notice how many of these demigods have stories so ancient their origin is unknown... stories that often seem "Christlike" (sired by a "god", born of a virgin, sacrificing self for man's benefit, etc.). This was a demonic attempt to muddy the waters as it relates to the truth of the incarnation.

And I have no doubt that these beings would all be connected to the mysteries of highly advanced ancient civilizations. While Enoch has clearly been messed with... the gist of the story is that these fallen angels taught mankind how to do many wicked things relating to science, war, sorcery, etc. They fed man's sinful desires and put man's decadence on "fast forward". God had to destroy the entire world to get things back on track. The angels that did this were then bound (in addition to any angels doing this after the flood) in chains of darkness as examples that God will NOT tolerate such actions. No doubt Satan enjoyed watching these angels wreak such havoc on earth. However, Satan had the wisdom not to partake in the sin himself. And so, he remains free, roaming as a roaring lion until this very day.