Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I'm sorry, Rico, but if they did not have "30" underaged pregnancies I'm not prepared to believe anything would have happened.

The thing is Texas knew why they moved here and why they set up the compound.

Don't forget this information.




They knew what they were doing and were waiting for them to cross the line - which they did. They were not coming at them for their religious beliefs, per se, but that their beliefs violated the law concerning sexual abuse.

Every family living on that compound is accountable. I wouldn't want any child to grow up in that environment. If they could place them through a "non-profit" fostering organization I wouldn't be as worried about the children. CPS is a joke, for the most part.

My SIL worked for them in Dallas for a while. A caseworker. She said they don't care about the children or the families, so she quit.

If they knew about 30 underage pregnancies then they should have gone after just those families, not everyone. It's the going after everyone that has me concerned.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

If they knew about 30 underage pregnancies then they should have gone after just those families, not everyone. It's the going after everyone that has me concerned.

If they live "IN OR AMONGST" that sect they are condoning their actions. If I live in a crack house, I'm going to get busted along with everyone else. I need to make better choices.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If they live "IN OR AMONGST" that sect they are condoning their actions. If I live in a crack house, I'm going to get busted along with everyone else. I need to make better choices.

Well, just remember that, if the day comes when CPS raids your church and takes away your children, over the church's religious beliefs, you wil be guilty because of being in or amongst them. Sorry, Sister, but that is as lame a reason for taking away peoples' kids as I have ever heard.

Also, don't think for a minute that what happened in TX can't happen in apostolic churches because the church I used to belong to was threatened with the same thing that happened to these people in TX several years ago. One of the young girls made a complaint against her stepfather. CPS was in the process of their investigation and wanted to interview different members of the church. (What the church had to do with what was going on with this family is beyond me.) When the pastor refused to allow it, CPS threatened to take away everyone's children in the church. All of this because the church was considered a cult because of it's dress standards, the way people shunned the world, and because of the way the church worshipped (it was referred to as "going to the dance" in that county). Fortunately, CPS did not make good on their threat and the case was settled.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rico

Well, just remember that, if the day comes when CPS raids your church and takes away your children, over the church's religious beliefs, you wil be guilty because of being in or amongst them. Sorry, Sister, but that is as lame a reason for taking away peoples' kids as I have ever heard.

On this point, Rico, if I knew that my pastor was endorsing, supporting and facilitating illegal, underage marriages, I would have a big problem with it. Remaining under his leadership would be my passive endorsement of the same, don't you think?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

On this point, Rico, if I knew that my pastor was endorsing, supporting and facilitating illegal, underage marriages, I would have a big problem with it. Remaining under his leadership would be my passive endorsement of the same, don't you think?

That's not the point, MB, and I am sure you know that. No one is arguing in favor of underage pregnancy. The point is that the State came in and took everyone's children, regardless of whether they were actively practicing polygamy or marrying off youngsters.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

On this point, Rico, if I knew that my pastor was endorsing, supporting and facilitating illegal, underage marriages, I would have a big problem with it. Remaining under his leadership would be my passive endorsement of the same, don't you think?

Hmmm... our public schools endorse underage sexual activity - and are very interested in teaching 12 year olds how to do it right (as long as it is not forced).

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rico

That's not the point, MB, and I am sure you know that. No one is arguing in favor of underage pregnancy. The point is that the State came in and took everyone's children, regardless of whether they were actively practicing polygamy or marrying off youngsters.

I know it's not THE point, but it is part of the issue. People can't sit passively by and allow crimes to be committed without being held at least somewhat accountable for their passive acceptance of illegal behavior.

As for taking away the children--I think the state of Texas is overreacting, no doubt, but I think they are trying to err on the side of caution. While the media is trying this group based on appearance and religious beliefs, I don't believe that is what the state of Texas is doing at all.

In fact, they've been pretty tolerant of illegal behavior (guised under religious freedom) by allowing the group to practice polygamy right under their noses for quite some time.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Hmmm... our public schools endorse underage sexual activity - and are very interested in teaching 12 year olds how to do it right (as long as it is not forced).

Not all public schools are created equal, as I've discovered. Two words: Charter school.

But in general--I agree. And I'm all for private or home-schooling. Too many Apostolics are passive or uninterested in the influence a school has over their child's psyche and belief system.

By the way, many states only make underage sex illegal IF one person is an adult and/or they are 36 months older than the other. This will come across as shockingly liberal, but it leaves legal room for "normal" sexual experimentation, which does occur, (whether it should or not) even in church settings.

That is NOT the same as marrying off 14 year old girls to 40 year old men, expecting those young girls to deal with pregnancy and marriage, and not allowing them the freedom to CHOOSE polygamy as an adult, as part of their religious beliefs or preferences.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Rico

Well, just remember that, if the day comes when CPS raids your church and takes away your children, over the church's religious beliefs, you wil be guilty because of being in or amongst them. Sorry, Sister, but that is as lame a reason for taking away peoples' kids as I have ever heard.

Also, don't think for a minute that what happened in TX can't happen in apostolic churches because the church I used to belong to was threatened with the same thing that happened to these people in TX several years ago. One of the young girls made a complaint against her stepfather. CPS was in the process of their investigation and wanted to interview different members of the church. (What the church had to do with what was going on with this family is beyond me.) When the pastor refused to allow it, CPS threatened to take away everyone's children in the church. All of this because the church was considered a cult because of it's dress standards, the way people shunned the world, and because of the way the church worshipped (it was referred to as "going to the dance" in that county). Fortunately, CPS did not make good on their threat and the case was settled.

Rico,
The thing is - we are not going to stop anything of this nature and we don't need to live in fear. We have the power and authority to touch the throne of God and then let Him work. So, whatever His will is, I'm good with that.

[Newman]

Pressing On-

1. How many individual cases do you think CPS would have had to prosecute before there were no more marriages to 16 and 17 year old girls?

2. Does it cause you any concern that CPS was told that there was a 16 year old girl being raped and physically abused, who already had one child and was pregnant again... yet they waited a full 3 days to go in.....claiming this particular child was NOT at immediate risk of harm and thus it took them 3 days to respond?

Yet when they go in they end up taking all the children because they are alleged to be in immediate danger because of the parents' beliefs.

3. Is it ok that they probably knew the call they were responding to was a bogus call? There was a tape of the call and the girl wasn't using the right vocabulary? The girl implicated someone known to be in police custody in another state? The call could have been traced to a tower in another state?

4. Did you know the caller changed the name and circumstances implicating a group in another state the next day? CPS from that state investigated as soon as they got it. Did not find the call had merit and did not take all the children in that community away?

5. Is it ok to trample over Constitutional rights so long as its a group of people that we find repugnant?

6. Do you really believe that Apostolics are immune to this type of prosecution in the future based on beliefs by some that women are subservient to men and pastors are authority figures? That homosexuality is wrong and children should not be given birth control? That children can't think for themselves and can't watch TV? That the girls are required to dress differently? That some Apostolics in California may want to opt out of public shools in California given their pro-homosexual agendas?

7. How much power do you want to give to the government over parental control and religous freedom?

DANGER AHEAD.....