The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I don't think you come across as judgmental, PP, but I think we can all agree to disagree without calling people backsliders just because they have a different view.

As to point number 1.--I don't believe the way I did once, you are right on that. I was raised to be judgemental and I didn't even understand God's grace. I believed whatever was taught to me as a child without ever searching the Word for myself. I took on everything ANYONE preached against and quit doing it, just because I wanted so badly to be right and I just thought that men of God knew everything. I found out that they are fallible too, and that you have to work out your own salavation. I am much more secure in Christ that I used to be. I used to go to bed at night scared that the Rapture would happen, and I would be lost, just because I wasn't yet good enough (and that was AFTER we were in ministry).

As for #2--I would never slam your doctrine. I love what UPC stands for, and what they did for me in my life, in bringing me to the Lord. I don't disrespect anyone for what they believe. The difference is that I would never call them unsaved or backslidden just because they differ from me. I think that anyone who pushes some kind of "belief only" doctrine only wants an easy route to heaven and they don't really seek to please God. However, saying that, I don't know anyone on this forum who would fit in that slot.

There are many who push belief only, but I won't name them here - as it would add nothing to the dialogue.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I don't think you come across as judgmental, PP, but I think we can all agree to disagree without calling people backsliders just because they have a different view.

As to point number 1.--I don't believe the way I did once, you are right on that. I was raised to be judgemental and I didn't even understand God's grace. I believed whatever was taught to me as a child without ever searching the Word for myself. I took on everything ANYONE preached against and quit doing it, just because I wanted so badly to be right and I just thought that men of God knew everything. I found out that they are fallible too, and that you have to work out your own salavation. I am much more secure in Christ that I used to be. I used to go to bed at night scared that the Rapture would happen, and I would be lost, just because I wasn't yet good enough (and that was AFTER we were in ministry).

As for #2--I would never slam your doctrine. I love what UPC stands for, and what they did for me in my life, in bringing me to the Lord. I don't disrespect anyone for what they believe. The difference is that I would never call them unsaved or backslidden just because they differ from me. I think that anyone who pushes some kind of "belief only" doctrine only wants an easy route to heaven and they don't really seek to please God. However, saying that, I don't know anyone on this forum who would fit in that slot.

Amen! Good post Sherri and it echo's how I feel.

Originally Posted by Sherri

I don't know how Daniel would answer, but I will tell you how I believe. I believe you are saved from hell when you leave the Kingdom of darkness and enter into the kingdom of His dear Son (genuine repentance). Then you are to be baptized in water to identify with the Body of Christ, and you need to receive the Holy Ghost to be able to live an overcoming life in this present world.

We had 48 receive the Holy Ghost last year; we definitely push it as necessary in your life. We do not make it a requirement for membership.

I got the feeling that I was watching a great performance by Fred Astaire or Gregor Hines.

I would ask again, can one be saved without the Holy Ghost? Or maybe I should ask, is anyone able to live an overcoming life in this present world without it? If not, then is the non-overcomer going to be saved based on the repentance experience? If the answer is no then I would assert that you believe that the Holy Ghost is essential for a person to be saved or else those who do not overcome will be saved.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

PP ... PREPARE FOR COVER .. FIRE IN THE HOLE ....

So be it. It's the truth.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by philjones

I got the feeling that I was watching a great performance by Fred Astaire or Gregor Hines.

I would ask again, can one be saved without the Holy Ghost? Or maybe I should ask, is anyone able to live an overcoming life in this present world without it? If not, then is the non-overcomer going to be saved based on the repentance experience? If the answer is no then I would assert that you believe that the Holy Ghost is essential for a person to be saved or else those who do not overcome will be saved.

Notice PP ... how this works ... Phil does not realize he is part of a culture ... that seeks to divide.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

I do agree there is a very small, but extremely vocal, segment of Apostolics that have made it their goal to pare off as many folks as possible. I am not one of them, and neither is Coonskinner.

My head is not in the sand. I am a very reality based and clear-thinking sort of fellow. This very often leads to my hands getting slapped.

But Daniel, if someone from outside of the movement, who had never been an Apostolic, viewed the changes in you, Sherri, and even Felicity, they would assume that you had left something you once believed in, and I'm not just talking about standards here.

Thats all I'm saying.

Gained a clearer understanding would be a better description PP. I am closer to God in my walk with Him now than I ever was before.

Knowing that my salvation is free gift from Christ has set me free to embrace Christ as he really is.

I serve and love out of gratitude, not obligation as before.

So many have said the same. That hey feel born again all over agian, when they clearly see the salvation message of the grace of God in a fuller way than they had before seen it.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Gained a clearer understanding would be a better description PP. I am closer to God in my walk with Him now than I ever was before.

Knowing that my salvation is free gift from Christ has set me free to embrace Christ as he really is.

I serve and love out of gratitude, not obligation as before.

So many have said the same. That hey feel born again all over agian, when they clearly see the salvation message of the grace of God in a fuller way than they had before seen it.

Real freedom ... freeatlast ... I am no longer a people-pleaser ... but a God-pleaser ...

Click here to dance

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Gained a clearer understanding would be a better description PP. I am closer to God in my walk with Him now than I ever was before.

Knowing that my salvation is free gift from Christ has set me free to embrace Christ as he really is.

I serve and love out of gratitude, not obligation as before.

So many have said the same. That hey feel born again all over agian, when they clearly see the salvation message of the grace of God in a fuller way than they had before seen it.

Yes my friend, but my point is the word "backslider" that has offended so many. Even to the world the word would be applicable to some. A backslider is someone who leaves something they once believed.

Lets not be too hard on Coonskinner here.

I am not trying to be inflammatory, just "following the cloud" of conversation, as MOW would say.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by philjones

I got the feeling that I was watching a great performance by Fred Astaire or Gregor Hines.

I would ask again, can one be saved without the Holy Ghost? Or maybe I should ask, is anyone able to live an overcoming life in this present world without it? If not, then is the non-overcomer going to be saved based on the repentance experience? If the answer is no then I would assert that you believe that the Holy Ghost is essential for a person to be saved or else those who do not overcome will be saved.

I believe that there are people who will be saved without speaking in tongues, yes. I don't believe that a one time experience of tongues saves you. I think that the baptism of the Holy Ghost gives you power, and I don't know about everyone else, but I NEED THAT POWER. We tell everyone that it's something that they need, but we don't believe that it saves them.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Yes my friend, but my point is the word "backslider" that has offended so many. Even to the world the word would be applicable to some. A backslider is someone who leaves something they once believed.

Lets not be too hard on Coonskinner here.

I am not trying to be inflammatory, just "following the cloud" of conversation, as MOW would say.

America once believed in slavery and segregation ... have we backslid PP??? Of course, not

The term is being misused ... why do you insist on calling your friends and brethren such???