LADIES please take my Holiness Test Thanks

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I don't think that figuring him out is even conceivable. As for finding him....It's sometimes hard to tell if its that I found a counterfit or if he really is all the bad things that I think.

On a "good" day, a hopeful day, I will believe that I must have had a twisted and distorted image of him, and a pseudo-relationship that was built on a false foundation.

On a "bad" day, a pessimistic day, I will believe that he is not to be trusted, capricious, and callous, and wants nothing more than to make us all suffer.

I'm confused. If you "find Him", then how are you finding anything bad to think? It sounds like you are pursuing ideas and evidence of Him and His "doings" (e.g., things you might see Him as being responsible for) rather than seeking Him, and spending time in His presence, talking to Him.

I don't look around at a sinful world and all the sickness and pain that humanity has brought upon itself to find God. I go into a quiet place away from all that to find Him. David said that he "looked to the hills." My Dad used to preach about "Don't look at people", because people will always let you down, but if you look a couple of inches above their heads you will find a God who never fails.

I know that you (probably) feel that God has failed you. But I think you are looking in the wrong places. It seems like (from your posts) that you are still gathering "evidence" about God instead of pursuing God directly. The only way to truly get to know God is to have personal encounters with Him. He doesn't deal with every person the same, because He knows the inner workings of our heart, and knows what we need, what we don't need, our motives, our intents.

But...I suppose any pursuit is better than none.

I think that one day you are going to be a great Christian. You're still struggling to get out of the cocoon, but the struggle is good for you.

Jeffrey had to go back to the doctor last week (he has been sick off and on since December 1, and has missed four weeks of school). She wanted to know what had changed, and I had no idea, so she asked me if he had started Pre-K this year. I said, "Yes", and she replied, "That is what has changed then. He's being exposed to viruses and his immune system isn't strong enough to fight it off." To which I nearly suggested that I would just keep him home and homeschool him--I'm so tired of seeing my baby sick! But then she went on with, "He needs to be exposed so that his body can build up immunities."

I think that when our spirits are weak, as converse as it may seem, we need to be "exposed" to hardship or trials or difficulties so that when we struggle to recover, we gain strength. Sometimes it may be little by little, lesson by lesson, a, b, c. Sometimes we need things to happen to reveal our own doubts and misplaced trust, and then God helps us rebuild those things, over time.

I don't know how its happening with you, but I think you are still IN God's process, whether you think you are or not.

[Blubayou]

Great Post M B - I don't know if you ministered to IMOE, but you ministered to me. I think you should pursue a writing career.

[Sarah]

IMOE, I want to ask you a personal question. Of course, you don't have to answer.....

What kind of relationship do/did you have with your dad? Or the father figures in your life?

You posts greatly disturb me.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Sarah

IMOE, I want to ask you a personal question. Of course, you don't have to answer.....

What kind of relationship do/did you have with your dad? Or the father figures in your life?

You posts greatly disturb me.

Sorry for taking so long to respond, I've had a pretty hectic day.

I'm sure you won't find it at all shocking when I tell you that my relationship with my father when I was growing up was not good.

He was controlling and domineering. He was an alcoholic and had a horrible temper and he would get these moods where he would someone find the most hurtful thing possible to say to you and he would take that weak spot and pick at you for hours.

He had enormously high expectations. Doing you best was not good enough, only perfection was acceptable. I spent most of early life trying desperately to please him. I thought if I just tried hard enough I would someday gain his approval.

As I got older, he got more and more controlling, "for my own good". To the point of deciding where I was to go to college, what classes I would take, and what my major would be. I eventually rebelled and dropped out of school deciding that I would rather fail on my own terms than succeed on his.

I don't think its any big surprise that my relationship with God has closely mirrored my relationship with my Dad. The desperate need for approval, and the untrustworthy and demanding "father".

I think I definitely would have struggled in this area, but I don't think it helped that my first church experience was in an very unhealthy church led by a man who shared many characteristics with my Dad. I think the two experiences made a pretty lethal combination.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm confused. If you "find Him", then how are you finding anything bad to think? It sounds like you are pursuing ideas and evidence of Him and His "doings" (e.g., things you might see Him as being responsible for) rather than seeking Him, and spending time in His presence, talking to Him.

I don't look around at a sinful world and all the sickness and pain that humanity has brought upon itself to find God. I go into a quiet place away from all that to find Him. David said that he "looked to the hills." My Dad used to preach about "Don't look at people", because people will always let you down, but if you look a couple of inches above their heads you will find a God who never fails.

I know that you (probably) feel that God has failed you. But I think you are looking in the wrong places. It seems like (from your posts) that you are still gathering "evidence" about God instead of pursuing God directly. The only way to truly get to know God is to have personal encounters with Him. He doesn't deal with every person the same, because He knows the inner workings of our heart, and knows what we need, what we don't need, our motives, our intents.

But...I suppose any pursuit is better than none.

I think that one day you are going to be a great Christian. You're still struggling to get out of the cocoon, but the struggle is good for you.

Jeffrey had to go back to the doctor last week (he has been sick off and on since December 1, and has missed four weeks of school). She wanted to know what had changed, and I had no idea, so she asked me if he had started Pre-K this year. I said, "Yes", and she replied, "That is what has changed then. He's being exposed to viruses and his immune system isn't strong enough to fight it off." To which I nearly suggested that I would just keep him home and homeschool him--I'm so tired of seeing my baby sick! But then she went on with, "He needs to be exposed so that his body can build up immunities."

I think that when our spirits are weak, as converse as it may seem, we need to be "exposed" to hardship or trials or difficulties so that when we struggle to recover, we gain strength. Sometimes it may be little by little, lesson by lesson, a, b, c. Sometimes we need things to happen to reveal our own doubts and misplaced trust, and then God helps us rebuild those things, over time.

I don't know how its happening with you, but I think you are still IN God's process, whether you think you are or not.

I'd been thinking about this post last night and throughout the day today. When I read it yesterday, I didn't want to give it a quick answer, I wanted to think more about what you said.

After I typed my response to Sarah, and was re-reading this post, something struck me. You said "He doesn't deal with every person the same, because He knows the inner workings of our heart, and knows what we need, what we don't need, our motives, our intents."

I think because of what I just shared about my Dad, and my first Pastor, this was fresh in my mind, and I realized. It's really not just about not trusting God and thinking he's all these really bad things. It goes back before that.

I always felt that if anyone ever really knew me, the real me, the person I was inside, that no one would ever love me. That's why I am so transparent, as somewhat of a defense mechanism. It's like I'm saying "This is me, if you can't deal with it, tell me now."

I think that being told my whole life how stupid, and useless, and utterly worthless I am, and how I deserve everything bad things that happens to me, because its all my fault in the first place.

I don't know if that makes any sense, or if it came out all contradictory. It seems to make sense in my head anyway.

[Blubayou]

IMOE- Your post made sense to me- I know you meant it for M B and I hope she sees it and answers it. I did want to say that you are peeling away some layers of yourself that are getting to the root of your relationship difficulties with God. I have some similar experiences and issues that I have dealt with for many years. I have often regretted not going for counseling early in my adult life to help me deal with the issues I have with my dad and authority figures. I guess what I am trying to say is that we all have issues that we deal with and the more we understand them the better we can compensate for them. My husband has helped me see some of my issues and helped me understand them. But it is amazing when those buttons are pushed how I will respond without thinking in a flash. I am rambling .......

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

...You said "He doesn't deal with every person the same, because He knows the inner workings of our heart, and knows what we need, what we don't need, our motives, our intents."

I think because of what I just shared about my Dad, and my first Pastor, this was fresh in my mind, and I realized. It's really not just about not trusting God and thinking he's all these really bad things. It goes back before that.

I always felt that if anyone ever really knew me, the real me, the person I was inside, that no one would ever love me. That's why I am so transparent, as somewhat of a defense mechanism. It's like I'm saying "This is me, if you can't deal with it, tell me now."

If you can be that transparent with us, then be that transparent with God. He knows all of it anyway. That's the deal--He does know the real you, and loves you anyway. Really.

This conversation reminded me of a great song -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWQIsG9Rqw

I think that being told my whole life how stupid, and useless, and utterly worthless I am, and how I deserve everything bad things that happens to me, because its all my fault in the first place.

I'm sorry that happened to you. My husband's Dad treated him that way, and he responded the opposite of you--he is very self-protective, and rarely lets down his guard, except with me and the kids. It makes me want to go back a generation or two and seriously kick a few hineys. Off-topic...sort of...but I think sometimes I have a harder time forgiving his father than he does. That's weird, I guess. I love him so much, it just makes me furious that someone would have hurt him like that, and he's pretty much over it. LOL

I don't know if that makes any sense, or if it came out all contradictory. It seems to make sense in my head anyway.

It makes sense.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

If you can be that transparent with us, then be that transparent with God. He knows all of it anyway. That's the deal--He does know the real you, and loves you anyway. Really.

Ronzo is always trying to get me to believe that, and in fact changed his signature line at a different forum to "God is passionately in love with YOU". So I got a good laugh out of a church sign I saw the other day when I was running some errands. It said "God Loves you, whether you like it or not!"

I'm sorry that happened to you. My husband's Dad treated him that way, and he responded the opposite of you--he is very self-protective, and rarely lets down his guard, except with me and the kids. It makes me want to go back a generation or two and seriously kick a few hineys. Off-topic...sort of...but I think sometimes I have a harder time forgiving his father than he does. That's weird, I guess. I love him so much, it just makes me furious that someone would have hurt him like that, and he's pretty much over it. LOL

I actually have a pretty good relationship with my Dad now. It probably helps that he lives 900 miles away, LOL. I think the turning point was when I realized that in many days my Dad was just like me. Once I understood that he says mean things when he is defensive and feeling hurt (just like me), and that he is a demanding perfectionist (just like me), because he was probably taught that his worth is defined by his accomplishments (just like me). In his case I think it was his Mother. She died before I was born, and he NEVER talks about her.

I can honestly say that I don't have anything against him. I guess in seeing my own life, I know how hard it is to fight against things that were imprinted on you at an early age.

I honestly don't have anything against the individuals or the unhealthy pastors who negatively influenced me spiritually either, as I can see people that I hurt (especially my husband) when I had a messed up view of spiritual things.

So it seems to be only God that I can't come to terms with.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

IMOE- Your post made sense to me- I know you meant it for M B and I hope she sees it and answers it. I did want to say that you are peeling away some layers of yourself that are getting to the root of your relationship difficulties with God. I have some similar experiences and issues that I have dealt with for many years. I have often regretted not going for counseling early in my adult life to help me deal with the issues I have with my dad and authority figures. I guess what I am trying to say is that we all have issues that we deal with and the more we understand them the better we can compensate for them. My husband has helped me see some of my issues and helped me understand them. But it is amazing when those buttons are pushed how I will respond without thinking in a flash. I am rambling .......

You weren't rambling!

Those buttons were exactly the reason why I had to go MIA for awhile. I wasn't able to seperate the things that I was angry about from Christianity in general . So basically, if it was something Christian, it pushed my angry button.

A friend said to me: "It's like you have this terrible wound that is horribly infected. When you hit one of your triggers, its like someone is punching you in that wound."

He convinced me to take a break, and to blog as a way of expressing (and releasing) the anger.

I suppose it sounds kind of crazy, to avoid all things Christian in order to find Jesus. But it did actually help. I think now that I have dealt largely with the anger, I am able to view things a little more rationally.

[Sherri]

Mich, I know you don't believe this, coming from a Pastor's wife, but you are actually SO refreshing. That's why everyone here loves you; there are no masks.