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[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I DO understand this, Mich! I lived in a lot of fear too - of not ever being good enough for God. But that was my own misunderstanding of the Word, I think.

I suppose whether we say its my understanding, or its how it was taught to me, is just semantics (but I can't resist making the point! lol)

The truth is, as I have slowly pulled away the layers of fear that permeated my entire religious experience, I find that there is nothing left. Everything I ever did, or believed was in response to the fear. In fact, my entire relationship was built on it. I guess it was my golden calf.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

I suppose whether we say its my understanding, or its how it was taught to me, is just semantics (but I can't resist making the point! lol)

The truth is, as I have slowly pulled away the layers of fear that permeated my entire religious experience, I find that there is nothing left. Everything I ever did, or believed was in response to the fear. In fact, my entire relationship was built on it. I guess it was my golden calf.

Your entire relationship was built upon fear? Does this mean you couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love? What exactly do you mean "entire"?

[Trouvere]

Sister Zero cracked me up.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Your entire relationship was built upon fear? Does this mean you couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love? What exactly do you mean "entire"?

It doesn't mean that I couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love. It only means that I didn't. What I found was that when I removed fear from the equation, there was nothing left. No convictions, no relationship, no beliefs, other than what had been motivated by fear. More importantly it seems to point towards the conclusion that I never had a true relationship with God in the first place.

[Trouvere]

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom the bible says.Thats a good start but if you relate to Jesus as a man only then its not enough.You need to build on love.His love
for you is a starting point.Just that someone loves you regardless if you deserve love
or not.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

It doesn't mean that I couldn't have a relationship with God built upon by love. It only means that I didn't. What I found was that when I removed fear from the equation, there was nothing left. No convictions, no relationship, no beliefs, other than what had been motivated by fear. More importantly it seems to point towards the conclusion that I never had a true relationship with God in the first place.

I don't say this to be mean, honest, but don't you think that you could start over and do it with love? Forget about standards, forget about church politics, forget about hell, forget about what the posters here argue about. Why not simply develop a relationship with God out of the sake of love? I mean every other relationship you have is with love isn't it? You love your husband, you love your kids, you love your mom and dad, you even have friends that you love I'm sure. Why don't you simply try and love God? Or are you having fun at our expense?.......................................... ........................Well, anyway it isn't too late if you really want to have a meaningful relationship with God. Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but it's sad when you cannot go beyond the fear because perfect love casts out all fear.

[Sherri]

Anyway, Mich, there are many of us on here who LOVE you lots. Maybe you will see the love of God someday through people here on earth. Maybe you will learn to trust again.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

I don't say this to be mean, honest, but don't you think that you could start over and do it with love? Forget about standards, forget about church politics, forget about hell, forget about what the posters here argue about. Why not simply develop a relationship with God out of the sake of love? I mean every other relationship you have is with love isn't it? You love your husband, you love your kids, you love your mom and dad, you even have friends that you love I'm sure. Why don't you simply try and love God? Or are you having fun at our expense?.......................................... ........................Well, anyway it isn't too late if you really want to have a meaningful relationship with God. Fear is the beginning of wisdom, but it's sad when you cannot go beyond the fear because perfect love casts out all fear.

Bro E, you make it sound as easy as I wish it could be.

The truth is that I AM actually trying to start over. I am trying to rebuild, but it's not as easy as you make it sound. I don't deny that i am stubborn and thick-headed and difficult, but even beyond that, I have no concept of God outside of the fear. In my mind it is almost impossible to think of God separately from the capricious and malicious bully I came to believe that he was.

It is one thing to say that God is gracious and loving and good and trustworthy, but the voice of my experience speaks louder. It says that he is waiting to punish, that he is a hard taskmaster, than nothing is ever good enough, that he asks too much and punishes you when you fail.

Which is not to say that I am right, in fact the tiny bit of faith that I have hopes that I am wrong.

But how can I develop a relationship with someone that I don't like? How can I love someone that I don't trust? How can I follow someone that I don't believe has my best welfare in mind?

I think that you have a much different view of God than I do, and I think that you cannot imagine how anyone cannot love God, cannot think that he is good or trustworthy, and I don't think you can understand why someone would be wary of a relationship with him.

I think the ball is in God's court. Obviously nothing can change until he someone shows me that he's different than I think He is. I don't pretend that is going to be an easy accomplishment. I am very skittish, and twitchy, and suspicious of it all.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Anyway, Mich, there are many of us on here who LOVE you lots. Maybe you will see the love of God someday through people here on earth. Maybe you will learn to trust again.

Thank you Sherri

[Neck]

My final opinion on standards. Do what your heart leads you. I do not want to be a voice against or for on this topic going forward.