Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN! - Page 5

Jason B · #41 09-15-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Every denomination is down, Jason.

Even more reason to believe the UPC would be up if their truth was really "the truth".

Of course if it really was "the truth" and the spirit was "the Holy Spirit" then they would love one another, not be a factory of division, churning out one after another. Is there any more fragmented group than "spirit filled" people?

Pressing-On · #42 09-15-2013, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Even more reason to believe the UPC would be up if their truth was really "the truth".

Of course if it really was "the truth" and the spirit was "the Holy Spirit" then they would love one another, not be a factory of division, churning out one after another. Is there any more fragmented group than "spirit filled" people?

You sound a bit divisive in this post. Love ya, man, but I'm just sayin'... You don't sound like you "love" them either.

tv1a · #43 09-15-2013, 05:51 PM

Correction, The UPCI is under 1 million. The organization lost a third of its membership throwing the Ethiopian membership under the bus. Even raiding other oneness organizations, the UPCI American membership is less than 1 million. Creative accounting constitutes the extra North American membership.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I say its the side that ADDS to the gospel. The UPC is down under 3 million and that's "evangelistically speaking". They "won" the argument and destroyed the fellowship. And what's worse they continue to divide and shrink. Ironically enough one of the required reading books for ministerial license was "United we stand" but if we finished the well known phrase we'd be forced to admit "Divided we fall."

Baron1710 · #44 09-15-2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I believe that Brother Epley has said that they were alike, as you state, but it didn't remain that way - and that is the larger point.

Look, if I am going to lay my life down - even to the point of death - it better be for the view I would willingly die for. I'm not going to vacillate between two opinions. It is just not going to work for me.

Apparently your the victim of the "I am right, everyone else is wrong" attitude. Must be weary be all alone.

tv1a · #45 09-15-2013, 05:54 PM

Don't confuse them with facts. Their minds are made up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Apparently your the victim of the "I am right, everyone else is wrong" attitude. Must be weary be all alone.

Jason B · #46 09-15-2013, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You sound a bit divisive in this post. Love ya, man, but I'm just sayin'... You don't sound like you "love" them either.

Perhaps it sounds that way but that's not how it is. Just yesterday my wife and I had a short conversation about visiting a UPC in the metroplex for Sun eve service (where some our friends go). Supposedly it is moderate.

But the issues were talking about here make it difficult for me to actually follow through with thoughts of visiting because I don't want politics, I'm not going to be pinned down to violating my conscious about what I believe or lying about what I believe (especially for use in the ministry).

But I've got a big fellowship dilemma. I'm preacher at a Bible Church but can't find any real fellowship (or org) because I can't violate my conscious and say I believe in the trinity. I also baptize in Jesus name and I don't think I can be comfortable in a church that doesn't. Its not that I'm uncomfortable fellowshipping with trinitarians, but those who most reflect where I am on their side are the conservative (usually Reformed) type churches and they're not going to accept someone in any meaningful way who denies the trinity. Its not an unwillingness on my part to have a broad fellowship but on theirs. My unwillingness to fellowship is with people who don't believe in the deity of Christ and churches that don't emphasize repentance and personal holiness. (E.g. I don't seek fellowship with seeker churches, Word of Faith Churches, and traditional denominations don't tend to fellowship outside their own, and I'm not real interested in the Methodist, Baptist, Or Church of Christ - all the denominations common to my area). I've got some good personal fellowship from people who attend different churches, but nothing beyond that.

So I'm a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. The UPC still more closely reflects my values and beliefs more than any other fellowship I am aware of, plus there's still so many friends of ours who are in the UPC, so that is also tugs at me. But because of what I believe I don't know if I could go back. Not because I can't co exist, but because some of those brethren would seek to destroy me. (Perhaps not at the local level, but probably at the district level). And I'm not of the mindset anymore not to challenge them ( when I was young 20s I was intimidated and even when I had questions or disagreements mostly kept them to myself).

But my point is IF they allowed to spirit of unity that was present at the merger to again be in their midst then people like me would have fellowship. As is I feel like I'm on Gilligan's island (spirituality). I can survive the loneliness and isolation if I have to because Jesus is with me, but I admittedly yearn for some fellowship amongst like minded people with similar passions.

So I'm probably more pro UPC than you will give me credit for, but my statements stand. If the leaders were really led by the Holy Spirit they would be defined by love for the brethren not division of the same.

Pressing-On · #47 09-15-2013, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Apparently your the victim of the "I am right, everyone else is wrong" attitude. Must be weary be all alone.

Pot meet Kettle.

Pressing-On · #48 09-15-2013, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Perhaps it sounds that way but that's not how it is. Just yesterday my wife and I had a short conversation about visiting a UPC in the metroplex for Sun eve service (where some our friends go). Supposedly it is moderate.

But the issues were talking about here make it difficult for me to actually follow through with thoughts of visiting because I don't want politics, I'm not going to be pinned down to violating my conscious about what I believe or lying about what I believe (especially for use in the ministry).

But I've got a big fellowship dilemma. I'm preacher at a Bible Church but can't find any real fellowship (or org) because I can't violate my conscious and say I believe in the trinity. I also baptize in Jesus name and I don't think I can be comfortable in a church that doesn't.

So I'm a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. The UPC still more closely reflects my values and beliefs more than any other fellowship I am aware of, plus there's still so many friends of ours who are in the UPC, so that is also tugs at me. But because of what I believe I don't know if I could go back. Not because I can't co exist, but because some of those brethren would seek to destroy me. (Perhaps not at the local level, but probably at the district level). And I'm not of the mindset anymore not to challenge them ( when I was young 20s I was intimidated and even when I had questions or disagreements mostly kept them to myself).

But my point is IF they allowed to spirit of unity that was present at the merger to again be in their midst then people like me would have fellowship. As is I feel like I'm on Gilligan's island (spirituality). I can survive the loneliness and isolation if I have to because Jesus is with me, but I admittedly yearn for some fellowship amongst like minded people with similar passions.

So I'm probably more pro UPC than you will give me credit for, but my statements stand. If the leaders were really led by the Holy Spirit they would be defined by love for the brethren not division of the same.

I understand you perfectly. We didn't get involved in the ministry, even though asked many times, because of the politics. It would have destroyed us. But, to be fair, I think there are politics involved wherever you find human beings. The Apostles rubbed up against those loving to have the preeminence. And I am sure that just because Diotrephes is referenced as such a man, I am sure there were many more they contended with.

Baron1710 · #49 09-15-2013, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Pot meet Kettle.

No PO I don't think only those who hold my views are saved. You version of the Gospel is the whole Gospel to our little church, and the rest of the world can go to hell.

houston · #50 09-15-2013, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron1710

You are so far out in left field you have no idea. There views were more alike than they were separate. But you guys got your way, it cost a lot of innocent people but like he says in the sermon, "You got the rats."

DKB and his troops have destroyed the UPC, a dying church that hasn't a clue they are killing themselves.

Now I am interested in the thread.

Bernard made a post on Facebook about the unity of the UPC. I searched for it on his page and could not find it. I commented along the lines that there is disunity and they force out everyone that doesn't agree with them. He replied that my comment proved his point (of a unified UPC).