How stupid is it to...

[Sister Alvear]

In my opinion it is fitting and fine to have certain standards. I think some have had pastors that have taken their authority too far and feelings are often revealed in posts.

Church is not a free for all...and neither should we have that attitude. We are in a spiritual warfare and often the real enemy is often overlooked.

When I was young far too much time was spent among certain circles seeing who could preach the hardest...I once remember going to a church and they ask me if my standard was 9 or 11 (might have been different numbers) I said, I really don't know what you are talking about...It was about how long my dress was! lol...

I had on red once and some people walked out of a service once when I got up to show slides...

I think we need to get the good Book down and read it once again...stand at calvary and watch Him bleed and die....Look at His feet and hands...

Too long what we don't like is called a sin and what we like is ok....We need to learn what SIN really is....

and by saying that I am not saying we cannot have certain standards but we do need to know if something is a sin or a preference...

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

In my opinion it is fitting and fine to have certain standards. I think some have had pastors that have taken their authority too far and feelings are often revealed in posts.

Church is not a free for all...and neither should we have that attitude. We are in a spiritual warfare and often the real enemy is often overlooked.

When I was young far too much time was spent among certain circles seeing who could preach the hardest...I once remember going to a church and they ask me if my standard was 9 or 11 (might have been different numbers) I said, I really don't know what you are talking about...It was about how long my dress was! lol...

I had on red once and some people walked out of a service once when I got up to show slides...

I think we need to get the good Book down and read it once again...stand at calvary and watch Him bleed and die....Look at His feet and hands...

Too long what we don't like is called a sin and what we like is ok....We need to learn what SIN really is....

and by saying that I am not saying we cannot have certain standards but we do need to know if something is a sin or a preference...

Sis. Alvear - I wish someone would take your posts and put them in book form.
I would buy as many copies as I could and distribute them to every young Christian I know.

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by lisafitzh2o

I have an honest question... maybe you all can answer for me. Why is it that when a business, school, etc. asks us to follow guidelines, no one complains? Maybe we don't enjoy abiding by their rules, but we blindly do what they say.

When I was in high school, the guys who played football had to shave their heads when the season began. They came from all walks of life... country boys, preppy guys, jocks. Nevertheless, they went to the barber before training began. It set them apart from the rest of the guys at school.

I know of 2 universities off the top of my head who require their girls in chorale to wear only dresses/skirts. I have read their policies, and they have sleeve length/neckline stipulations... and these schools are FAR from being apostolic. Again, it sets them apart from other girls on campus.

Even the New York Yankees have had a "no facial hair/long hair" policy, and guys know when they sign on, they've gotta get a razor. They are held to a different standard than other MLB teams.

Yet when a pastor wants people to abide by certain guidelines, suddenly we scream heresy. Is it because it's a "church" and not a school/business/athletic department... or do we just not want someone telling us what to do? This has puzzled me for years.

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Hmmm... they can I suppose, but the problem I see is that the church is composed of all different walks of life and by definition is diverse. Not so in most business models. Their preferences and dress code is applied to a similar group. For example what the US Starbucks execs might be required to do, does not extend to the barista, truck driver and the coffee bean harvesters.

If the church sets a standard it should be flexible. They should not pattern it after a particular a white collar middle class model. Neither should they use a model best suited for a logger or fishermen. There are times of course when business standards are applied for safety concerns - which is a different issue altogether.

Bottom line? The "No Beards" policy was probably established by white collar men with no beards, and not a fisherman or logger with a beard, even though they are equal brothers in Christ.

Originally Posted by freeatlast

The problem is we have simple minded men that have proclaimed themselves Gods messengers.

So simple they can not discern between their own personal preferences and biblical doctrine.

Hence the title of this thread... BTW, great post, Hoovie!

[canam]

I listened to it (its 2 hours )basically he said he isnt going to spend his time checking to see if everyone has their elbows etc. covered) ,and if someone has theirs showing they aint backslid but he did caution everyone that he believes its biblical to be modest ,that adam and eve thought they were clothed but they werent and God clothed them properly,likewise we shouldnt always be pushing the limits, if we expect our children to not push the limits. On the other hand if we teach something as biblical when its a preference and our children eventually find out it isnt, then they are going to question us on everything, in other words, what else did they tell me was sin when it isnt?He also stated it was right when our fore fathers took a stand against tv, due to its promotion of hollywood,however what are we going to do when tv becomes obsolete? which it will ,what are we going to do when it comes through our internet? So he said what we need to do is teach the priciples of salvation,then people wont want to delve into sin and hollywood no matter the source of it.He said that it wasnt a sin to want to look good or pretty but lets keep it" natural" He wanted to assure people he wasnt going worldly or charasmatic, as some have accused,but neither was he going to chase every little thing that someone does ,that wants to push the limits like some do. Good teaching!He also addresses the history of facial hair,and why preachers took a stand against it however ,that time has passed and because someone has facial doesnt mean their not saved. Its a good listen.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by papapraiz

The message you are speaking of is on his church podcast http://acfw.org/Sermons.aspx.

It was preached on 6/23/2010 and is called This Present Distress: Learning To Use Wisdom In A Changing World

Ferd is right - it is balanced and biblical.

Just listened to the whole thing. It is an excellent message! While I may disagree with a few small points he made here and there they did not take away from the main thrust of the sermon, which was 100% right on.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by canam

I listened to it (its 2 hours )basically he said he isnt going to spend his time checking to see if everyone has their elbows etc. covered) ,and if someone has theirs showing they aint backslid but he did caution everyone that he believes its biblical to be modest ,that adam and eve thought they were clothed but they werent and God clothed them properly,likewise we shouldnt always be pushing the limits, if we expect our children to not push the limits. On the other hand if we teach something as biblical when its a preference and our children eventually find out it isnt, then they are going to question us on everything, in other words, what else did they tell me was sin when it isnt?He also stated it was right when our fore fathers took a stand against tv, due to its promotion of hollywood,however what are we going to do when tv becomes obsolete? which it will ,what are we going to do when it comes through our internet? So he said what we need to do is teach the priciples of salvation,then people wont want to delve into sin and hollywood no matter the source of it.He said that it wasnt a sin to want to look good or pretty but lets keep it" natural" He wanted to assure people he wasnt going worldly or charasmatic, as some have accused,but neither was he going to chase every little thing that someone does ,that wants to push the limits like some do. Good teaching!He also addresses the history of facial hair,and why preachers took a stand against it however ,that time has passed and because someone has facial doesnt mean their not saved. Its a good listen.

This was actually the main (nitpicky) point I did disagree with. I felt he read a bit too much into trying to define modesty by attempting to say that God made the equivalent of a robe which covered X, Y, and Z. For all we know He made garments out of animal skins that would make any Bond girl at the beach proud. I doubt it was that skimpy, but I also highly doubt they were both covered like modern day Muslims.

Don't mean to take away from the main message, which again was excellent.

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Sis. Alvear - I wish someone would take your posts and put them in book form.
I would buy as many copies as I could and distribute them to every young Christian I know.

Thanks..

someone used to sing a song that said, WHEN I have learned enough to really live I'll be old enough to die....

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Theophil

How stupid is it to preach against men having facial hair?

As stoopid as the last time someone mentioned how stoopid it was here on AFF

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Just listened to the whole thing. It is an excellent message! While I may disagree with a few small points he made here and there they did not take away from the main thrust of the sermon, which was 100% right on.

I'm 22 minutes in, and so far it's excellent.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Theophil

How stupid is it to preach against men having facial hair?

It isn't stupid unless you start saying that they are going to hell for having a beard. But to simply preach against it, well some would argue that being clean shaven is a form of modesty or humility. I don't have a problem with a beard at all..