Apostolic Minister/State Rep. voted for AZ bill - Page 5

Dedicated Mind · #41 05-12-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

That makes him hypocritical? How? What would be expected in order for it to not be hypocritical? For him to turn them all over to law enforcement? The bill in question isn't even asking for that kind of action. It's just giving law enforcement the right to check immigration status when a person is detained for ANOTHER lawful cause.

should he be receiving tithes and offerings from illegals? should he be associating with illegals if he is against illegal immigration?

DAII · #42 05-12-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny44

Wouldn't he be obligated to report illegals in his congregation being a rep. from the state.Yes he knows who's who in the congregation.He said on the t.v. that they all should go back speaking of the illegals.The apostolic assembly has illegals in every one of its churches.

So does the UPCI's Spanish churches ... all of them ....

That said the Apostolic Assembly is getting bombarded with calls and emails ... and a good source says the Assembly leadership is not happy with him.

Some of his peers are reaching out to him ...

Also .... there are illegals pastoring in both fellowships.

DAII · #43 05-12-2010, 04:20 PM

Traditionally since the NAU reign ... and under Dan Scott (who directed Spanish ministries in the early 1980's) ... the official UPCI position on illegals in their churches has been DONT ASK, DON'T TELL ... just preach the full gospel.

DAII · #44 05-12-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

should he be receiving tithes and offerings from illegals? should he be associating with illegals if he is against illegal immigration?

He has been fed, clothed, luxuries, etc from the toils of these illegals, growing up under his dad ... as I am sure that his dad did not return their tithes and offerings.

Nor I am sure, has he returned any offerings and salaries he's received from the sweat of their labor for peanuts.

Yet they faithfully give ... when they don't have ... and for every pet project ... even when some these men have them giving multiple offerings in any given service.

Jeffrey · #45 05-12-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

He has been fed, clothed, luxuries, etc from the toils of these illegals, growing up under his dad ... as I am sure that his dad did not return their tithes and offerings.

Nor I am sure, has he returned any offerings and salaries he's received from the sweat of their labor for peanuts.

Yet they faithfully give ... when they don't have ... and for every pet project ... even when some these men have them giving multiple offerings in any given service.

You must be mistaken. 80% of all illegal immigrants are heartless, cold-blooded killers. I read that stat somewhere. Off with their heads!

n david · #46 05-12-2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

So does the UPCI's Spanish churches ... all of them ....

That said the Apostolic Assembly is getting bombarded with calls and emails ... and a good source says the Assembly leadership is not happy with him.

Some of his peers are reaching out to him ...

Also .... there are illegals pastoring in both fellowships.

How can you Pastor while knowingly breaking the law? I'm sure there's something in the Bible against that. Legally it's the same as killing someone, then getting up in the pulpit to preach ... they're breaking a law.

Reaching out to him, for what? To try and make him change his mind? To badger and harrass him? Try to get him to help lawbreakers like themselves?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic 2:38

"Regarding the tithes received - that's neither my business nor is it any of your business."

Nice way to cop out n david...

Not a cop out. I'm not a member of his church and unless you are, it's none of your business what they do with finances. If the people that go there don't like it, they can voice their concerns either at a business meeting, by withholding their offerings or by leaving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic 2:38

"(as you put it) WHITE business owners who hire illegals for cheap labor."

As I put it??? n david, your going to tell me that white business owners don't hire illegals???

The "as you put it" was to emphasize the color you used. I do know white business owners hire illegals ... as do latinos, blacks and others. The fact is AZ has a law in place ... one that (like this one) was criticized and threatned to be sued against because it was racist, against civil rights, blah blah blah. Same whining, different day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostolic 2:38

"As far as the Legislator goes, I don't see where he's being a hypocrite"

You're are 100% right...he voted the way his constitutes wanted him to vote, I agree..then he should, this Sunday bring in ICE and call out all the illegals in his church...if he doesn't, he is a hypocrite...you can agree with me there I'm sure..

If there is a law that states that ministers or pastors must contact ICE to report illegal immigrants - then he should by all means report them. Of course, in that case the US Catholic Church will be largely emptied. But there is no law requiring this.

Pressing-On · #47 05-12-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Traditionally since the NAU reign ... and under Dan Scott (who directed Spanish ministries in the early 1980's) ... the official UPCI position on illegals in their churches has been DONT ASK, DON'T TELL ... just preach the full gospel.

Daniel,
No one is going to turn in a good illegal. It's the dishonest ones committing crimes that are the cause for this uproar and rightly so!

My father employed illegals the whole time I was growing up. He fed them, clothed them, paid them, gave them beer (lol), etc. He even allowed them to stay at one of our ranches in Pearsall, TX, when they came through Eagle Pass. They were hard workers.

If the churches are taking them in, they need to act like Harriet Beecher Stowe and her family during the post-Civil War era. Harriett and her family started schools in the south to educate them so that they could assimilate into society and have a better quality of life.

MissBrattified · #48 05-12-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Daniel,
No one is going to turn in a good illegal. It's the dishonest ones committing crimes that are the cause for this uproar and rightly so!

My father employed illegals the whole time I was growing up. He fed them, clothed them, paid them, gave them beer (lol), etc. He even allowed them to stay at one of our ranches in Pearsall, TX, when they came through Eagle Pass. They were hard workers.

If the churches are taking them in, they need to act like Harriet Beecher Stowe and her family during the post-Civil War era. Harriett and her family started schools in the south to educate them so that they could assimilate into society and have a better quality of life.

Good post--and it seems like the actual application of this bill is being obfuscated so that the pastor can be crucified (needlessly). It has to do with checking the status of someone who has already committed a crime of some sort. Technically, this happens to average Americans all the time--when you're stopped for speeding, what does the officer do? He checks your plates to make sure your car isn't stolen, and checks the validity of your Driver's License! AND they check for warrants. Guess what? If you have an outstanding warrant, YOU GO TO JAIL! This is NO different!

Is it possible that the pastor is trying to stem the flow of illegal behavior in his congregation? Perhaps he thinks it could affect their salvation to consistently disregard the laws of the land?

I'm just saying. And frankly, I'm surprised at the vitriol pointed in this man's direction; I suppose I shouldn't be.

Again--he did not vote on a bill that says "round up all the illegals and send them home." He voted on a bill that says, "if a CRIMINAL is here illegally, send him back home."

MissBrattified · #49 05-12-2010, 05:05 PM

What on EARTH does this man's vote have to do with tithes and offering in the church??????

Let's review:

1. He pastors a church that no doubt contains illegal immigrants, at least according to comments on this thread.

2. He's involved in politics, and voted on a bill that allows law enforcement officers to check to immigration status of people who have committed crimes.

3. This somehow makes him hypocritical, and in order to be consistent, he needs to boot all the illegals out of his church and return any tithes or offering they've paid in?

I would say that consistency would only require him to boot out illegals who are involved in criminal activity other than their simple illegal status, and return any money THEY have given him. Otherwise, I can't even connect the dots.

Pressing-On · #50 05-12-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Good post--and it seems like the actual application of this bill is being obfuscated so that the pastor can be crucified (needlessly). It has to do with checking the status of someone who has already committed a crime of some sort. Technically, this happens to average Americans all the time--when you're stopped for speeding, what does the officer do? He checks your plates to make sure your car isn't stolen, and checks the validity of your Driver's License! AND they check for warrants. Guess what? If you have an outstanding warrant, YOU GO TO JAIL! This is NO different!

Is it possible that the pastor is trying to stem the flow of illegal behavior in his congregation? Perhaps he thinks it could affect their salvation to consistently disregard the laws of the land?

I'm just saying. And frankly, I'm surprised at the vitriol pointed in this man's direction; I suppose I shouldn't be.

Again--he did not vote on a bill that says "round up all the illegals and send them home." He voted on a bill that says, "if a CRIMINAL is here illegally, send him back home."

Yes, that is what he did - voted for a bill because of the high crime. It has to be stopped. If these men and women are getting saved, the congregation needs to pray and seek funds to make a way for the illegals to get papers, etc. That is the honest thing for any Christian to do - obey the law.

If they leave an oppressed place out of desperation, I would help them get on their feet. I know the Word is true - He will never leave us or forsake us.

I don't know any illegal stories from any of the Spanish works around here, but I know one of our Spanish pastors and his family very well and he is honest as the day is long.

What we don't want is the illegals coming here and bringing their flag - leave it in Mexico! Lord, that infuriates me to no end!!!!