The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segraves

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So then Seagraves feels that water baptism is not essential to being born again? Holy Spirit baptism is not essential to being born again?

A shame if thats true. It would just prove again that Bible College theologians dont necessarily know more than an average saint who seeks God. Thats not some deep teaching its just plain old false doctrine.

Oneness Pentecostals are in a huge slide. They have hardly any teachers to look up to.

I noticed you never quoted Segraves.....

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Just based on the Words of Christ He tells me that they are not required for His Salvation plan.

i don't understand what you said. who or what is they that are not required?

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i don't understand what you said. who or what is they that are not required?

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i believe everyone will be judged individually by the standard of christ whether muslim, buddhist, christian or apostolic. when someone is saved, whether at faith, baptism or tongues is inconsequential.

Baptism or tongues.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Baptism or tongues.

ok got you. but what about people who have been raised muslim and buddhist etc. who live ethical lives as taught by jesus but within their own tradition? do you think god will condemn them with hellfire for being ethical but not adherents to the christian religion of christ as god but christ as prophet?

[LUKE2447]

What I find is amazing is how Christianity takes words like justification which can be used and be seen in several ways and packages it only one way. The word salvation and how people use it is another. Segraves has some good points but misses and fails at what Gen 15 is saying and what Paul and James both say about it. He falls in line with the same failure as many protestants on justification and the word believed.


People use "justification" to much as a acquittal of sin. While in part it can have a view in relation to a pardon etc... It does not mean it is salvation directly but how God judges and considers ones position good or bad. A person can be justified in many things but also not in a few.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I noticed you never quoted Segraves.....

No my statement was in question form. I hope he does agree with Jesus and the Apostles. The summation I read from Sam seemed to indicate a Protestant Evangelical slant.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

ok got you. but what about people who have been raised muslim and buddhist etc. who live ethical lives as taught by jesus but within their own tradition? do you think god will condemn them with hellfire for being ethical but not adherents to the christian religion of christ as god but christ as prophet?

14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

We have no authority to offer another way. Our job as a Christian in whatever nation we may be in is to offer salvation through Christ.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.

We have no authority to offer another way. Our job as a Christian in whatever nation we may be in is to offer salvation through Christ.

what does "through me" mean? could it mean through the ethical standards I teach? what is so different between an ethical pagan and an ethical believer in jesus?

[Michael The Disciple]

Well this is someone elses thread. They may not want the topic changed that drastically.

[Dedicated Mind]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well this is someone elses thread. They may not want the topic changed that drastically.

this thread is 50 years old. no one cares. are you afraid to tackle the question?