Praying People Through - Page 5

staysharp · #41 03-09-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

Staysharp,

While I do not know your doctrinal/theological foundation it would appear (from the red bolded portion) that you believe "praying someone through" or praying until they "speak in tongues" is simply for them to receive the "gift of tongues." If your supposition was correct then your point would indeed be valid, however, when most oneness Pentecostals speak of praying someone through, we are speaking of receiving the spirit of Christ (Holy Ghost) which one would have to receive BEFORE he/she could be endowed with the gift of tongues or any other gift of the spirit.

In Acts 2:38 the word used for gift is the Greek dōrea which simply means gift as in a present. The Word used in I Corinthians 12 for the gifts such as healing, tongues etc. is charisma which has a markedly different definition. (Strongs defines it as grace or gifts denoting extraordinary powers, distinguishing certain Christians and enabling them to serve the church of Christ, the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating on their souls by the Holy Spirit)

Incidentally, I do not agree with most of the "professional" Holy Ghost "specialists."

Thank you for an educated response. However, I disagree that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the infilling of Christ. We simply do not have biblical precedence for this. Christ comes into our hearts by faith, not a spiritist environment with the music just right and the hammond playing..."god's not dead" or "I'm a Pentecostal"...lol

bishoph · #42 03-09-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Thank you for an educated response. However, I disagree that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the infilling of Christ. We simply do not have biblical precedence for this. Christ comes into our hearts by faith, not a spiritist environment with the music just right and the hammond playing..."god's not dead" or "I'm a Pentecostal"...lol

You're very kind! lol.......While I disagree with you on one hand, I do (at least in part) agree with you on another. The difference being that IMHO the biblical evidence of "tongues" being the "initial" evidence is quite compelling. (3 out of 5 times it is specifically mentioned as the initial evidential sign of Holy Spirit baptism.)

This would put me in what some would call the "initial evidence" doctrinal camp. Meaning, that I do not believe one can receive the true spirit of Christ without the fruit of that spirit being manifest in their lives. (No matter how much they speak with tongues.) The fruit of the spirit will bring progressive balance, control, and proper relationship, the lack of which would prove the absence of the Holy Ghost.

Sherri · #43 03-09-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph

You're very kind! lol.......While I disagree with you on one hand, I do (at least in part) agree with you on another. The difference being that IMHO the biblical evidence of "tongues" being the "initial" evidence is quite compelling. (3 out of 5 times it is specifically mentioned as the initial evidential sign of Holy Spirit baptism.)

This would put me in what some would call the "initial evidence" doctrinal camp. Meaning, that I do not believe one can receive the true spirit of Christ without the fruit of that spirit being manifest in their lives. (No matter how much they speak with tongues.) The fruit of the spirit will bring progressive balance, control, and proper relationship, the lack of which would prove the absence of the Holy Ghost.

Good post! I totally agree.

I believe that you will speak in tongues when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. However, I don't believe that it "saves" you.

mizpeh · #44 03-09-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Thank you for an educated response. However, I disagree that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the infilling of Christ. We simply do not have biblical precedence for this. Christ comes into our hearts by faith, not a spiritist environment with the music just right and the hammond playing..."god's not dead" or "I'm a Pentecostal"...lol

I received was baptized with the Spirit of Christ in my apartment. I knew I had received Christ because I spoke in tongues just like the believers in the Bible that I had read about.

So what does your last sentence have to do with anything? Seriously, who preaches that no one can receive the Spirit apart from a hammond playing a popular upbeat Pentecostal tune? Where do you come up with this stuff?

TRFrance · #45 03-09-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Thank you for an educated response. However, I disagree that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the infilling of Christ. We simply do not have biblical precedence for this. Christ comes into our hearts by faith, not a spiritist environment with the music just right and the hammond playing..."god's not dead" or "I'm a Pentecostal"...lol

How did Peter and his buddies know that Cornelius and his household had received the Holy Ghost?
Was it because they heard them speaking in tongues...or was it some other evidence?

(Acts 10:46)

RandyWayne · #46 03-09-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

So, my new Apostolic Magazine comes in the mail and here is this article on "how to pray people through". An interview with a hot shot praying people through evangelist. He says he has a 95% success rate...how does he know his success rate? Is there someone counting those who get it and those who don't and then do the math for him?

A few interesting quotes;

"People need to relax...they will not get the Holy Ghost while being uptight".

Question: If you pray with someone for a while and they seem to be getting nowhere, what do you do?

Answer: If people seem to struggle, they may not have fully repented, so I make sure they confess their sins and get it all out.

Now my question to you all: Where does it say you have to repent to receive the gift of tongues? And did not Jesus say..."how much more will your heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask"

How much repenting would one need to do to speak in tongues and get it all out? And is repentance a requisite to receiving the gifts? Are not the gifts given without repentance

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

If his gifts are irrevocable, how can one ever repent enough to merit receiving?

This article is right from the pit of hell.

I post this without having read anything other than the initial post of the thread.

staysharp · #47 03-09-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This article is right from the pit of hell.

My sentiments exactly...

staysharp · #48 03-09-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

How did Peter and his buddies know that Cornelius and his household had received the Holy Ghost?
Was it because they heard them speaking in tongues...or was it some other evidence?

(Acts 10:46)

I didn't say they didn't receive the gift, I said it's not the evidence. A sign always points to the reality of what is. The evidence is a life filled with the fruit.

staysharp · #49 03-09-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherri

Good post! I totally agree.

I believe that you will speak in tongues when you receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. However, I don't believe that it "saves" you.

So Sherri, are you saying all of our good Luthern, Presbyterian friends who exhibit Christ are not filled with His Spirit because they haven't spoken in an unknown tongue? I know some Presbyterians who put most Pentecostals to shame.

RandyWayne · #50 03-09-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

I didn't say they didn't receive the gift, I said it's not the evidence. A sign always points to the reality of what is. The evidence is a life filled with the fruit.

Amen. That is the REAL evidence. Not someone having their head shaken a little too hard while they attempt to pray.