PROOF that Barack Obama was/is a Socialist??

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

SlowlyFading,

Have you considered that it might not be the people surrounding you, but you?

I know many good Christian democrats - they don't think like you do.

Riiiigggghhhhht. I don't believe it. Most Christian Democrats I've spoken to admit that they are prochoice but would like to focus on reducing abortion rates through social measures and education. I voice that and I'm called a baby killer. My wife and I had been faithful contributors to the DFLA (Democrats for Life of America) and know a few Democratic Christians. A lot of them think like me. But most aren't as mad at the right wing church because they didn't try to be a part of it like I did. I thought the right wing church would be friendly and allow for divergent views. It's like my current pastor said about this election...."On one side you have the Bible and on the other you have gays, abortion, and communism. I won't tell you who to vote for but Jesus should." Bro...my wife and I wanted to walk out and never go back because of that distortion.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

Riiiigggghhhhht. I don't believe it. Most Christian Democrats I've spoken to admit that they are prochoice but would like to focus on reducing abortion rates through social measures and education. I voice that and I'm called a baby killer. My wife and I had been faithful contributors to the DFLA (Democrats for Life of America) and know a few Democratic Christians. A lot of them think like me. But most aren't as mad at the right wing church because they didn't try to be a part of it like I did. I thought the right wing church would be friendly and allow for divergent views. It's like my current pastor said about this election...."On one side you have the Bible and on the other you have gays, abortion, and communism. I won't tell you who to vote for but Jesus should." Bro...my wife and I wanted to walk out and never go back because of that distortion.

Well, I'm not a Bro.

You can say all you want, but I know what I'm talking about. You can be a democrat and a Christian at the same time.

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Then one of two things has happened to you. either you have simply taken your eyes off of God and looked at humanity for your direction, or there is something else going on here that you arent dealing with that has nothing to do with politics.

I know better than to say I will pray for you, but i am very concerned about you.

Ferd, you're on the money there bro.

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Well, I'm not a Bro.

You can say all you want, but I know what I'm talking about. You can be a democrat and a Christian at the same time.

No you can't. I tried it and the very people I looked up to (rather it be men on this forum, other forums, or at my previous church) made it perfectly clear that something was "wrong with my experience". The last time I was called an "abortionist" and "baby killer" I decided that it was done. You guys win. You need a sign over churches in America that read, "No Democrats Need Inquire".

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

Blah, blah, blah. Most socialist countries aren't the size of Alaska and their gross national product isn't anywhere near our own... of course we're far more dominant.

There are a lot of things about America that are better than many of these countries. But we also have to remember....most of these countries were devastated a generation ago and they had to rebuild their entire economy, infrastructure, etc. from the bottom up. The European Union is rapidly becoming a major player and in time their economic and political power could overshadow the US...and they may have done it in less than one generation. That's VERY rapid advancement under their socialist system. It's taken us 200 years to get here.

I've spent a lot of time in Canada and frankly....it's cleaner, the people far less combative, and no one I know personally has had a significant problem with the health care system (though don't be fooled, there are problems that need to be addressed). Here in the US people die from treatable illnesses all the time simply because they can't fork over the cold hard cash for treatment.

I don't think a hardline socialist agenda is needed....there is a middle road but mindless ideologues on both sides are blind to it.

You probably like the Canadian healthcare system because you a relatively healthy (I'm guessing). I have a friend in Canada whp told me about his mother waiting 6 months to have a gall bladder removed b/c it wasn't life threatening. 6 MONTHS to live with the pain, nausea and discomfort. He said many that live close to th border just drive over to the US and pay to get it their medical needs met b/c they can get it right away.

Socialism restricts freedom. That's probably why Americans have such an aversion to it. We like our freedoms. We like to make our own decisions. We like to see hard work and entreprenurialism rewarded and laziness and slothfulness suffer.

My wife has friends in Holland and they pay 70% in taxes. No thank you. Europe may be emerging as financial powerhouse but where they get it right is they don't tax their corporations like we do. We have the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Therefore many American companies are "outsourcing" because of the punitive taxation of industry here.

Socialism isn't Marxism for sure, but it is paralleled with it on economics. Socialism's track record isn't too impressive. Even with a diminishing dollar, even with the strength of the euro, even with the relatie happiness of Canadians and Europeans---America is still the lynch pin that holds these nations and economies together by and large because it ISN'T as socialist as the rest of these. Look at how all the markets are down because America is down..........................

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

Here in the US people die from treatable illnesses all the time simply because they can't fork over the cold hard cash for treatment.

I don't know of a single hospital that would refuse treatment for anyone if they didn't have the money here in the US. Many times doctors and hospitals write off certain bills because they know there are some people that cant pay of their bills. There is no country on the planet that has better hospitals, research, doctors and innovators in the medical fields.

Your statement above is a claim that is unsubstantiated. Do you have documentation to prove that people are dying here all the time from treatable illneses b/c they don't have the money?

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

just because a socialist supports Obama, doesn't mean that Obama is a socialist. You are complicit in a smear campaign and is very unchristian like.

what is to fear from socialists? the soviet union collapsed, communism is dead, market economies are the only valid form of government. The only question is between totalitarian markets like China and free markets like the U.S. The solution is somewhere in the middle with a more regulated market. What is there to fear from socialism in the U.S. except more government funded healthcare which is already the norm in Europe?

You are engaging in unfounded scare tactics.

Originally Posted by Ferd

And DEADHEAD,

As it relates to endorsements, I for one think William Ayers endorsement of Obama is important!

William Ayers hates what America IS. However, he beleives that Barak Obama is the man who can change America into something he can like.

THAT is proof enough to me that Barak Obama is a terrible choice for President!

I am reporting this post because I think, for all of AFF's blather about being open and tolerant, it clearly is not.

Ferd, you have become increasingly combative and mean-spirited of late.

Further, according to AFF's own rules, name calling is strictly prohibited.

I completely disagree with DM, but he has a right to promote socialism if he wants to.

Get over yourself Ferd.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

I was sidelined from my ministry because I voiced disagreement with the narrow political bent my church was taking in the last church I attended. The church I currently attend had a summer of "worldview" seminars in which nothing but right wing politiking was taking place over the pulpit. I was confronted in a parking lot and physically threatened for speaking against George bush on one occasion, on one occasion someone put a bunch of left wing crazy bumper stickers on my car while I was worshipping. Let me tell you...the conservatives I know have proven to be the most nasty people I've encountered. Anyone who doesn't agree with you politically is a Hell bound Communist. I used to argue that a Christian doesn't have to be a right wing political conservative....after years of being called a baby killer, a communist, slandered, having property defaced, threatened, etc.... I've chosen to embrace it. You're right. Christians can only be right wing conservatives.... and that simply means that we can't be Christian. It's not like we didn't want to be. You guys drew the line and set the rules of engagement. So let the wars begin. I don't call myself a Christian, I don't tell people I attend church, and frankly I've considered never going back. I don't want to be told how to vote. I wanted to go to heaven. But I know better know.... we're not welcome in your heaven.

And when I spoke about respect I said that I said that I "at least" give the respect of not using people's real names. Because if you live in a real liberal area maybe your conservative views will come under fire in your immediate personal life. I don't want to do that to you.

Sorry for all you've been through, bro. Seems like youve dealt with some very UNChristian Christians. But keep in mind, God hasn't done anything wrong. Keep your eyes on Him and His kingdom. That's what it's all about.. I have noticed your tone has changed over time, and you do seem angrier, unfortunately. And now it's sounding to me like you've taken your eyes off the ball somewhat, and that's not good for you, nor is it good for the Kingdom. That's just giving victory to the devil.

You may also want to look inward a bit also. I understand that not all Christians will necessarily be conservative, but your style is more abrasive and confrontational than almost any other Apostolic democrat/liberal I've come across.Sometimes our very approach to a dialogue/conversation will only add fuel to the fire, making a tense situation worse.

Anyway, peace to u sir .

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

Don't you love it when people try to tie you to your real name....especially when you've already been personally harrassed and almost physically accausted because of things written on the internet? I take it as a threat.

But here's the deal....right wing extremists don't care if someone get's slandered or attacked for disagreeing with their narrow right wing agenda...they just want to silence you.

In essence they're saying...."Agree with us...or we'll expose you and maybe you'll get what's coming to you."

That's why I at least give the respect of not using real names in my posts.

I don't know what you are referring to here.

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I don't know what you are referring to here.

Most likely that's because you weren't a part of the conversation at hand, nor was it directed toward you.