Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW being... - Page 5

LUKE2447 · #41 07-29-2008, 11:09 AM

Yes but the great commandment deals with the heart ofthe law not all of God's will.

To love God with all your soul mind and strength does not include directly everything he wants you to do which would be God's law unto you. God says be a missionary to Mexico or wherever. That is law! Your response(faith) to fullfill would be to do such. Now was that commandment in the 613? No! It still is law! Without faith(proper response) to God it is sin!
Loving God with all your heart etc.... Does not directly include in context not eating blood or strangled things per Acts 15. But to follow God's will(love him and keep his commandments) would be to do what he says is best in all things! Thus your proper response(faith) is the only way to please him. To not do such is to let the flesh rule and that is lacking faith(proper response) to God's desires and are at enmity with God as the flesh has dominion.

Pastor DTSalaz · #42 07-29-2008, 12:33 PM

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is now and has always been by grace through faith. When God gives a command by faith we believe and do his word. Our faith is made evident by our works. Our works do not save us our faith in Gods Word, his law or promise given by command, is shown by our actions. If we believe we do what He wants and not do what He, God commands us not to do. Disobedience is not doing what God commands but doing the opposite, which is not of faith, disbelieving God.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

After disobedience came grace and mercy. God did not reward us according to our works but made provision or promise.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

This is the first time we see the sign of atonement. The oral law was given to Adam & Eve. God instructed them that death must take place as the consequence of sin. This was the shadow the substance was going to be in Eves seed Jesus Christ. The fulfillment was future but to believeGod and demonstrate faith an animal sacrifice must be made year by year to atone for their sin. When Cain offered an offering different than what God commanded even though he offered his best it is not accepted. Not of works, not because we do good things or are good people, if it is not what God commanded it is not of faith. We cannot be saved by the will of the flesh.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

This Law of God does not change from the Old Testament/Covenant to the New. In the old covenant they looked forward to the promise in the new we look back to the fulfillment. Both are of FAITH in God and his provision. If in the old covenant they didn't have faith they wouldn't do what God commanded in the new people now are condemned not because there is not provision for sin but because of unbelief.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Highlyfavored · #43 07-29-2008, 01:03 PM

Romans 8:3 (King James Version)

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Matthew 5:17 (King James Version)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Before the Holy Ghost came Laws were written on tablets. Man could never keep them. After the Holy Ghost came God put the Laws in our Hearts. If you Love God and want to do his will you will want to do what is right to please him.

Praxeas · #44 07-29-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Prax, sometimes not all the time! God's law transends covenants. As it is his nature and will for us to do and imitate to him, others and our surroundings.

your are in sin if you are not circumcised! If God has not made the SPIRITUAL circumcision you are still dead in sin. so circumcision is STILL necessary but in a different way. Types and shadows. Some things are a reality now spiritually which where physical before.

The problem here is nobody has defined LAW.

The LAW is the COVENANT, the law of Moses, not just the 10 commandments.Circumcision in the law was not a spiritual one. Paul points out they did not need to be circumcised

LUKE2447 · #45 07-29-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is now and has always been by grace through faith. When God gives a command by faith we believe and do his word. Our faith is made evident by our works. Our works do not save us our faith in Gods Word, his law or promise given by command, is shown by our actions. If we believe we do what He wants and not do what He, God commands us not to do. Disobedience is not doing what God commands but doing the opposite, which is not of faith, disbelieving God.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

After disobedience came grace and mercy. God did not reward us according to our works but made provision or promise.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

This is the first time we see the sign of atonement. The oral law was given to Adam & Eve. God instructed them that death must take place as the consequence of sin. This was the shadow the substance was going to be in Eves seed Jesus Christ. The fulfillment was future but to believeGod and demonstrate faith an animal sacrifice must be made year by year to atone for their sin. When Cain offered an offering different than what God commanded even though he offered his best it is not accepted. Not of works, not because we do good things or are good people, if it is not what God commanded it is not of faith. We cannot be saved by the will of the flesh.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

This Law of God does not change from the Old Testament/Covenant to the New. In the old covenant they looked forward to the promise in the new we look back to the fulfillment. Both are of FAITH in God and his provision. If in the old covenant they didn't have faith they wouldn't do what God commanded in the new people now are condemned not because there is not provision for sin but because of unbelief.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Amen!

Praxeas · #46 07-29-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Prax this is in part true. Paul stated the the LAW showed us SIN! Paul or any other apostle does not have to go and point out every sin again they already had the list. Whether they be sins against the body or God.

Paul and John already pointed to the LAW and what is right. To transgress the laws that God wanted his people to do was sin.
The basis of the law is about love, thus due what God commands without all your soul, might and strength. Love your neighbor and be a blessing to them through loving the commandments of God and to act in stewarship to the world around you. Thus loving the things God has provided.

Paul states he did not know sin but by the law, that it was a school master to lead us to Christ. There are so many commandments under the law, like food laws, that are no longer binding.

berkeley · #47 07-29-2008, 01:41 PM

I think most prefer if the food isn't binding.

LUKE2447 · #48 07-29-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The problem here is nobody has defined LAW.

The LAW is the COVENANT, the law of Moses, not just the 10 commandments.Circumcision in the law was not a spiritual one. Paul points out they did not need to be circumcised

I agree PRAX law has to be defined!
I also agree it is not just the ten! Also I would agree they did not need to be physically(depending on the mind set they could as long as they realized it did not obtain righteousness in itself.) We must though be Spiritually which is what the law pointed to. As the law pointed to Christ!

LUKE2447 · #49 07-29-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Paul states he did not know sin but by the law, that it was a school master to lead us to Christ. There are so many commandments under the law, like food laws, that are no longer binding.

Again does God want you healthy? What was the point of the food laws? To make a healthy nation!

SImple question? Do you want God FULL in your life? That means complete! That would be both physical and spiritual. Of course the spiritual is most important but don't think God does not care about your physical health as well. Then why do you not heed what he says about health! Forget whether is it sin unto death.

Again, I have not seen any scripture that the LAW of God was ever to be done away by the OT. What we do see is that God said it would be put on our hearts! Paul confirms this!

Also food is not a spiritually binding thing as it is a physical law. Paul main focus was on spiritual application. It does not diminish though the reason for dietary laws. Food does not defile one spiritually it can physically defile you health butnot your spiritual as that is a matter what springs forth from it.

berkeley · #50 07-29-2008, 02:00 PM

Is there a list of good and bad foods somewhere online?