Dave Bernard addresses beards

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Here's a shocker......I agree with you!

And please share with us why?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

There you go so why whine about this when if I gave you 14 verses it would not matter in the least. Some folks are their own pastor. They trust the doctor-school teacher-policeman-vacuum cleaner salesman but not the preacher. That is fine with me there are many so-called Apostolics I do not trust particularly them which refused to be pastored. So we are even.

LOL, would it raise your opinion of you to know that I also severely distrust doctors, dentists, insurance reps, and hairdressers? I try to avoid them at all costs, though you probably approve of that last one!

But you did inspire me. I think I need to add so-called Apostolic to the list in my signature!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, what part of you can not deny someone their right to worship God do you not understand? If an apostolic person wanted to participate in the excersing of their religion by partaking of communion and you denied them you could find yourself in court having to explain it to a judge. And saying they have a beard would not cut it, Brother. Church is not a private club. If your's is then you need to stop cheating the government out of the taxes you owe for running a private club instead of a church.

The mentaolity: "My church" "my saints" "it's his church" has cause many problems.


"the pastor of the church" would be foreign to the early church.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am the pastor that gives me that right. I have the oversight here and I am responsible for the leadership of this local assembly. I will give an account NO ONE else.(Heb. 13:17)

Again, I agree!

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

And please share with us why?

I think people are reading waaaaaaaaay too much into what Bro. Epley is saying, making him out to be a cultic dictator.

Where I work, they have rules. I'm not even employed by the facility where I work, but I still have to abide by their rules.

That means I have to cover my tattoos when I work there. I can only have one pair of earrings on. When I'm at clinical, I have to wear my barely-below-my-shoulders length hair up above my collar. I can't have any facial piercings. And.....*gasp*.....I have to watch my language and not be vulgar or offensive!!! Even when outside!!!

You might think I work for a bunch of commie gestapos, but the fact is, I love my job, and I will obey those rules in order to be a nurse. There is nothing that says I can't be a nurse elsewhere and not have to obey those rules, but I don't want to go elsewhere.

I see Bro. Epley in the same light. He has rules. He already stated it wasn't Biblical and that he didn't preach it was a heaven or hell issue, but people are still reading and responding to him that way.

He has rules. People can choose to obey or not to obey. This doesn't make them unsaved. He never even hinted at that. He said they can go elsewhere if they like, but the fact that he's admitted to having about 40 men in his congregation tells me that he has about 100 in his church, at least.

If they don't have a problem with his rules, why do we??

I attended a church where I wanted to be in the choir. My pastor told me his rules that he had for choir members. He didn't give me a single verse or scripture passage for any one of those rules....he just said it's what he preferred. I obeyed without hesitation. Why? Because I loved that church and wanted to be a member of the choir.

Sure, I could have went elsewhere and been a member of their choir without following all those rules, but I wasn't complaining, therefore, what was the big deal?

If you don't want to follow the rules, then don't. Nobody is going to force you, but don't complain you don't like the rules when you have a choice of places to attend church.

That's how I see it. Now let the stoning begin!

The apostles taught the early church those things which Jesus commanded them to teach. They also taught by direct inspiration, in a manner not available to us today (considering the canon of Scripture is closed).

Did they ever teach that the church, or that elders, may bind the conscience of other brethren or of the whole church, or any part of it, in ways not revealed by the Word of God?

Or is the authority of elders in the church restricted to teaching ONLY that which Jesus commanded the apostles to teach the church?

I submit that if an elder may bind the conscience of the church, or even a part of the church, in one manner (such as practices to be maintained) he may likewise bind the conscience of the church in another manner (such as doctrines to be believed).

In other words, if an elder has God ordained authority to require his brethren to shave, for example, he must of necessity also have the authority to teach as doctrine that which the Bible has not revealed.

"Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men", perhaps?

[HeavenlyOne]

I'd like to know what scripture Paul used when he gave instructions to the churches on his preferences.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

The mentaolity: "My church" "my saints" "it's his church" has cause many problems.


"the pastor of the church" would be foreign to the early church.

You know folks Biblical illiteracy is amazing Paul spoke of MY children, MY sons and he was an Apostle of the early church.

[Steve Epley]

The ladies in our church if they are going to be on the platform I want their hair up and the men to wear ties. There is no scriptural command for either but to me it looks nicer so they do it.

Am I a cultist if I:

Tell folks to turn to page 95 in the song book?
Tell folks we will have a prayer meeting on Monday night?
Tell folks we are having a workday Saturday and I want them there?
Tell folks service begins at 6 on Sunday Night?
Tell folks bring some visitors?

And the list goes on.

I am a leader that is what I do is to lead. Why is it only in church are leaders seen as cult leaders if they actually lead and expect folks to follow?

[Sister Alvear]

No, elder you are a fine man. You have our uttermost respect. Even when we differ we respect your stand...Did you mean ladies wear their hair up?