Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I suppose staying with the word is heartless, right? You can't see the word teaching truth in love even if it's telling someone they're lost.

Speaking of not answering. ... you never answered this. .

Is it possible to tell someone they've been condemned already if they don't believe?

You seem to not think so. You cannot imagine the word codemning and people repeating that info.

The agenda is to destroy the doctrine of Christ, by substituting some post-modernistic, anti-rational, heuristic gobbledygoop. Just shout some feel good slogans without any intellectual comprehension of the meanings of language and try to drown out the opponent with meme's, one liners, cute internet pics, and ridicule. In fact, when one has no argument, one often resorts to neo-schizophrenic babblings, like a plane jettisoning chaff to try to get the heat seakers off its tail.

The natural man receiveth not the things of God. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God nor indeed can it be. Etc etc.

God saves by His Word. When a person rejects the Word, they cannot be saved. Perhaps God will grant them repentance, and recover them out of the snare of the devil, but He will never do it apart from His Word. Faith is, in essence, submission to the Word of God.

[Aquila]

The only way to be certain that one is saved is to obey Acts 2:38. Although yes, God is ultimately every individual's judge, outside of Acts 2:38 there is no real assurance.

I pray that God will have mercy upon them. And I hold out hope that God will have said mercy. However, it is ultimately God's choice, not mine.

[Sean]

Amen

[shazeep]

it is a function of Scripture, to convict, yes. And i agree that you are condemned already, if you do not believe. Understand that what you believe is not sufficient, however--God will not judge your beliefs, and you have revealed your heart, which is what is judged.

"Moreover, believing as “believing the right things” does not intrinsically lead to a changed life. It is possible to have strongly-held beliefs, even more or less right beliefs, and still be unchanged: fearful, self-preoccupied and self-concerned, angry, judgmental, mean, even brutal and violent. Christian history and the history of other religions are filled with examples. Believing has little transformative power."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/marcusb...s-a-christian/

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The only way to be certain that one is saved is to obey Acts 2:38. Although yes, God is ultimately every individual's judge, outside of Acts 2:38 there is no real assurance.

I pray that God will have mercy upon them. And I hold out hope that God will have said mercy. However, it is ultimately God's choice, not mine.

Christ said to repent and believe the Gospel.

Even today I still don't see Acts 2:38 as the Gospel of Christ.

Repentance yes, Baptism yes, Baptism of the Holy Ghost nope.

Christ preached believe upon Him and you will have eternal life and won't be put to shame.

Unless of course Christ was mistaken in what He considered the Gospel.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

This is statism? Statism has nothing to do with Christianity, and you are still a troll.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

prolly just a coincidence tho

Shazeep your form of Nicer Than Jesus religion is what helps these guys and gals end up in prison. Who can't tell anyone they're lost or found, but just be nice? Dude, your prison planet was built by the pablum puking change agents like you.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, i have already said i was mostly just goosing you with the meme--

So, you are really proving now that you are a Troll.

You posted it trying to make waves instead of trying to prove a point.

Originally Posted by shazeep

and yes, we create addicts, as they are discovering now,

False, we don't create addicts, addicts create themselves. All that enabling garbage never works, never will. That's why liberals are such whiners.

Originally Posted by shazeep

i might have a link for anyone who cares--but it really is intuitive, more or less http://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari...wrong#t-724886

So, you care? What are you doing on a personal level other than trolling forums and giving your two cents? What are you doing to change the world around you? Posting your change agent rhetoric on forums?

Originally Posted by shazeep

and Western Christianity is a pretty large group. and they led me to Christ. so i didn't mean that in that way, wadr. the point is moot to me now, anyway, as that Pent church has changed its sign, it is now an indie, and those people are gone.

Wow, that was clear as mud.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

it is a function of Scripture, to convict, yes. And i agree that you are condemned already, if you do not believe.

Then you contradict yourself. Informing a Muslim they're lost is not condemning them. They are already condemned because they don't believe. For Jesus to say people are already condemned because they disbelieve proves that it is possible, which you have denied all along, to inform a person they're lost without being accused of condemning them. Your entire series of posts claim that to inform someone they're lost is to condemn them. You saw no possibility in such informing other than condemning them. No matter what was shown from scripture, and no matter how much we stated that the word and God condemned them, and we only relayed that information, you refused to admit it is possible to show them that their disbelief cond,ended the, long before we said anything, where we merely relayed that information.

So, it is now evident that you reject the very thing stated when it comes from us, that is stated in the word, merely because the statement came from us as we relayed the word. When we give you the same thing the word says you reject it. But when we present the word actually saying it, you are forced to accept it.

Had you known the word enough, you would have recogniEd we were doing what the word saying: Not condemning since the word and God already condemned those who believe not. But when we show the scripture saying that, you suddenly change. You just don't know the word.

Understand that what you believe is not sufficient, however--God will not judge your beliefs, and you have revealed your heart, which is what is judged.

Another contradiction in your words.

I said in my heart I am merely relaying what the word said and what it reveals God already judged and condemned. In my heart I would help a Muslim in a wounded state as much as I would my family. In my heart to say Muslims are lost is only saying we can't be saved by works. In my heart was no condemnation whatsoever. You then admitted you know that, which was why you continued talking. Now you contradict that and claim my heart is NOT that state. And by the way, intentions are in the heart, and only God can judge the heart. So you contradicted yourself by claiming to judge as God does, when all the while I've been merely relaying what God already judged in my statements.

So it turns out your contradictory words reveal you are simply refusing to change your mind about what I said in a circular manner of reasoning that you are right just because.

"Moreover, believing as “believing the right things” does not intrinsically lead to a changed life. It is possible to have strongly-held beliefs, even more or less right beliefs, and still be unchanged: fearful, self-preoccupied and self-concerned, angry, judgmental, mean, even brutal and violent. Christian history and the history of other religions are filled with examples. Believing has little transformative power."

Though we must take care of the whole heart, the heart is also the part of us that believes. And to say believing has little transformative power is to be extremely anti biblical. Extremely!

Jesus said the work the picnic followers injohn 6 should have been doing to gain eternal life was believing. You poo poo that.

Believing is faith. And faith is so transformative that Paul said those who have the faith of Abraham are his seed Since they're in Christ by that faith. Faith is huge. Without it you cannot please God. Little transformative power? Wow. You clearly don't know the word.

Romans teaches all about the mind and what we believe in the heart. To believe Christ's death counts as ours and to realize we therefore can live above actual sinning because we believe we're dead to it through Christ is what chapter 12 stood upon to say we're transformed by the renewing of our minds. And that's only the mind! If renewing our minds does that, then what does faith and belief do?! To renew the mind is to know. Paul spoke of knowing our old man is crucified in chapter 6. That extends into believing or reckoning ourselves as dead. So if knowing in the mind is transformative enough in itself, which is a mere precursor to belief and faith based on such knowing, how much more powerful is belief?!

To believe God's work of the cross makes us righteous is part and parcel with understanding that our hearts must love and be kind and humble and nonjudgmental or condemning. Again, because it magnifies the fact he is no respecter of person. How can we be better if it's his work that saves us and makes the difference?

Something happened to you where you cannot comprehend a loving heart in someone who says all Muslims are lost. It fits scripture, but nothing said can change you due to some past trauma you had. You cannot imagine someone saying that in humility simply relating the truth that salvation is not of works. We say the same thing scripture says, just without scriptural terms, and you condemn it (hypocrisy right there). But when we quote the scripture that says it, you are forced to accept it, but still maintain a difference in our words and that scripture when there is none.

You just don't want to lose, an argument. Sad. Enough has been said. You're too stubborn to admit the point. Bye.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

if you sound like them, how can one tell?

That is absolutely wrong, Brother Blume is a Canadian, plus he is using scriptures to prove that your beliefs are incorrect concerning soteriology. You on the other hand keep spouting some political statist mantra like we are the ones who start wars, you wrap ourselves up in American flags and preach a warrior Jesus. You are having an argument with someone who isn't even posting in this thread. You are a change agent, a trolling hater who wants to cause issues, not mend them.