Ray Boltz????

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by cneasttx

My point is God does not wink at sin. Any sin. If unrepentant He will not abide with a person.

Will you achieve sinlessness before death?

I think that is the gist of this man's words, God made him this way so he doesn't need forgiveness or deliverance from this particular sin.

I think many do try to justify their behavior by suggesting that God made them that way. I think that’s where we, as the Church, need to educate them. Explain to them that perhaps they were “born” this way (i.e. born a sinner with this fleshly disposition). Help them see this as something rooted in their sin nature. Then explain to them that this is why they need the Lord so desperately. Then we move on to the regeneration of the spirit through the new birth, the regeneration of the mind through the preached Word, and finally the petition for God’s total healing in body. See, what we do is we correct the spirit through bringing them into the new birth. We then renew their minds through preaching….but we leave the body out. We don’t explain to them that this is in their flesh and that they will need a miraculous healing also. So when they continue to struggle in their flesh they begin to doubt that their spirit has been regenerated and they begin to doubt that their mind is being renewed by the Word. Suddenly they feel that God has either abandoned them or has accepted them as normal. We need to bring them into the third dimension of physical healing and renewal also. And be open with them…until God heals their bodies, they will struggle with this in their flesh. But give them all the assurance we can that they are saved and that God loves them. And if and when they fall…we pick them up and brush them off like we do anyone else who falls into sin.

Personally…I think the sin of homosexuality is of far less consequence than religious pride, hate, and arrogance.

None of us are sinless. If a homosexual is crying out to God for salvation and has simply said, “Lord, I can’t fight it anymore. Without a miracle, this is what I am.” They’re being more real with God than the Pharisaical legalist who denies their own sinfulness in their condemnation of others.

Our battle has always been between flesh and spirit. Why do we relegate this to "willpower" and brow beat those who are bound by an infirmity of the flesh?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Give me a break. We do have a biological aspect to our nature.

You remind me of the bishops who tried to break Galileo's telescope because he proposed a heliocentric model of the Solar System. lol

Bro...all this means is that man's nature is corrupted from the fall down to his very basic genetic level. Even the biological process of aging is the result of the fall on our biology.

I think that you're only looking at the spiritual side of this. There is a biological side also. Those who have been "delivered" from homosexuality were delivered by the miraculous healing power of God. The homosexual needs to repent of sin, plead for God's grace, and pray for a COMPLETE healing in body (genetics), soul (mind), and spirit (eternal essence). The new birth only regenerates the spirit. The soul continues to need correction through teaching....that's why we attend regular bible studies. We often neglect the body and sins effects on our physical nature. Our bodies need regeneration also...that's the role of "healing". The homosexual who is saved needs to be healed from the inside out...not just on the inside. They need their whole person regenerated.

It's sad to me. Because it's like we're doctors that have the cure for this disease...but we're throwing stones and accusations at our patients. That's one reason why the Church is such a farce.

Telling you my opinion that what you said is wrong, is not an insult. Calling me a censorist is a cheap shot. I am not afraid of science, but I will hold accountable and argue that it be applied correctly especially when a peanut gallery meta-analysis is proposed.

Comparing the oxidation process with a genetic disposition toward homosexuality is a monumental leap...in fact good luck landing on the other side of that canyon.

I found your comment to be both interesting and contradictory...

...and pray for a COMPLETE healing in body (genetics)

You are saying that someone could pray for deliverance of baldness, or premature graying, or obesity, or other physical condition. While nothing is impossible for God, supernatural manipulation or modification of your genetic code through prayer and fasting almost sounds nonsensical...especially when using it as fodder to call the church a farce?

I think we can agree on minor points, but your accusations, mischaracterizations and leaps of logic are too outrageous to even consider the finer points.

Dial it in a bit and maybe we can find common ground.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Will you achieve sinlessness before death?



I think many do try to justify their behavior by suggesting that God made them that way. I think that’s where we, as the Church, need to educate them. Explain to them that perhaps they were “born” this way (i.e. born a sinner with this fleshly disposition). Help them see this as something rooted in their sin nature. Then explain to them that this is why they need the Lord so desperately. Then we move on to the regeneration of the spirit through the new birth, the regeneration of the mind through the preached Word, and finally the petition for God’s total healing in body. See, what we do is we correct the spirit through bringing them into the new birth. We then renew their minds through preaching….but we leave the body out. We don’t explain to them that this is in their flesh and that they will need a miraculous healing also. So when they continue to struggle in their flesh they begin to doubt that their spirit has been regenerated and they begin to doubt that their mind is being renewed by the Word. Suddenly they feel that God has either abandoned them or has accepted them as normal. We need to bring them into the third dimension of physical healing and renewal also. And be open with them…until God heals their bodies, they will struggle with this in their flesh. But give them all the assurance we can that they are saved and that God loves them. And if and when they fall…we pick them up and brush them off like we do anyone else who falls into sin.

Personally…I think the sin of homosexuality is of far less consequence than religious pride, hate, and arrogance.

None of us are sinless. If a homosexual is crying out to God for salvation and has simply said, “Lord, I can’t fight it anymore. Without a miracle, this is what I am.” They’re being more real with God than the Pharisaical legalist who denies their own sinfulness in their condemnation of others.

Our battle has always been between flesh and spirit. Why do we relegate this to "willpower" and brow beat those who are bound by an infirmity of the flesh?

Wow you got all that out of my post? So you are in effect calling me a sinner, a pharisee, a legalist, a judge. And so the homosexual that doesn't see the need for forgiveness or deliverance is saved but I am not, or my sin is greater than his? I did not condemn any man but I did condemn the sin.

[mfblume]

Consider the woman physically bowed over for 18 years whose recovery was deliverance of a demon spirit. Who would have thought a physical condition was caused by a devil? Of course this would not always be the case. But this goes to show us that some situations of the same condition as another are not corrected in the same way due to varying reasons for the condition.

Jesus told one man to wash his eyes, full of mud that the Lord put in them, in a pool, and be healed. He did not do that with other people.

Every situation may very well be unique as to the cause. That would mean each one requires a different form of ministry. Jesus even cast a devil out of a man that caused the man to be deaf and mute. But not everyone deaf and mute has a devil.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Foxnews: Farmer Dan killed his milk cow today. Poor creature was a victim of Dan's obsession with the fly spinning around the cow's head. Dan was reported to have a 25lb sledge hammer that he could barely lift and unfortunatley hit his beloved daisy square between the eyes. We here at Foxnews sure hope that Dan can get milk from that horsefly...if he would only let go of the hammer he obviously can't control.

Junior,

Be advised - You will continue to be the recipient of the thunderous might of Thor's hammer if you continue to false claim in my 'hood.

I understand your frustration when a once prolific, thoughtful, influential poster as yourself .... posting style is reduced to flailing and anemic attempts at being the Alfred E. Newman of the AFF.

As this sad episode concludes with another myth busted, EMT has informed us that you will not be air-vacced for placing foot in mouth but for having head firmly lodged in and up an another anatomical aperture.

Godspeed.

Now go on and 'git.

- The King

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I thought the post was ignorant. Sorry.

I don't believe in genetic victimization.

My dad died an alcoholic, I have never been drunk in my life.

Aquila's conclusion is flat meaningless.

Genetic victimization...is that the same as saying God made me this way?

Our genetic makeup determines our eye color, build, hair color, even male pattern baldness, but is our sinful nature derived from our genes?

[Sister Alvear]

My dad was an alcoholic and my sister was/is an alcoholic. I have never touched the stuff in my life...

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Genetic victimization...is that the same as saying God made me this way?

Our genetic makeup determines our eye color, build, hair color, even male pattern baldness, but is our sinful nature derived from our genes?

No, I don't think it's the same. The siamese twin example that Aquila presented is a good one. Did God make them siamese twins? Or is that anamoly the result of imperfect flesh begetting more imperfect flesh with various imperfect genetic traits? I do think of homosexual tendencies as being comparable to alcoholic tendencies. A genetic cocktail (so to speak) that puts some at a disadvantage in overcoming these particular issues. It's not an excuse, but I think it's a reason. Why wouldn't genetics affect emotions and urges in the same way they affect physical traits? People inherit personality traits from their parents as well.

I don't think all homosexuality stems from genetics, but I think it is a valid point.

[SDG]

BTW ... My daughter wants to thank you, Carp, for inventing chocolate chip cookies.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

BTW ... My daughter wants to thank you, Carp, for inventing chocolate chip cookies.

I'll second that. And now I want chocolate chip cookies. Too bad I'm too lazy to walk another mile today to get chocolate chips.