It blows my mind that folk will trust a preacher with their eternal soul but with 10% of their income.
They are indicting themselves before God as being thinkers of evil thoughts by judging others, those to whom the tithes are due. They, without saying so, are judging the ministry as not worthy, not good enough, not responsible enough to receive all the tithe and in doing this they are saying that they themselves are more than able to correctly determine these things.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
They are indicting themselves before God as being thinkers of evil thoughts by judging others, those to whom the tithes are due. They, without saying so, are judging the ministry as not worthy, not good enough, not responsible enough to receive all the tithe and in doing this they are saying that they themselves are more than able to correctly determine these things.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
You know the crazy thing for me is, I dont even care if there is some rule that says you HAVE to tithe.
I just know there is a principle behind it. I know in Gods economy, when I hold up my end, God ends up holding up his end and also my end for me.
I have seen days when there was not enough money to go around. My pastor told my parents not to pay their tithes. they did anyway and money came in the mail "I was just thinking of you and I hope this helps you".
Not once. but 4 times in a six month period. God blesses. im not interested in double thinking God.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
You know the crazy thing for me is, I dont even care if there is some rule that says you HAVE to tithe.
I just know there is a principle behind it. I know in Gods economy, when I hold up my end, God ends up holding up his end and also my end for me.
I have seen days when there was not enough money to go around. My pastor told my parents not to pay their tithes. they did anyway and money came in the mail "I was just thinking of you and I hope this helps you".
Not once. but 4 times in a six month period. God blesses. im not interested in double thinking God.
Thank you Ferd...
That is a wonderful Christ-like attitude. I appreciate that.
For me, it is not a matter of "I have to pay tithes." It is a matter of, "O how blessed and happy I am that I GET TO PAY THEM."
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Just for my own edification J, since I missed it somewhere in all of this discussion, how would you suggest that the ministry be supported and missionaries sent out if the tithe in the form of money is not supplied to the ministry. Surely you would not suggest supporting the ministry with a bushel of turnips and missionaries by a sack of corn? Or would you?
Just wondering how that would work.
Okay, Bro Strange, I went and fetched it for you as this has been addressed earlier in this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Yet ... what does the Word tell us about giving and filling the needs of the Church ... I believe the following article addresses the issue in a sound way.
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Needs in the new covenant ministry
In the new covenant church, there are financial needs — to support the poor, and to support the gospel by supporting those who preach it. Christians are obligated to give financial support for these needs. Let's see how Paul explained this obligation in his second letter to the Corinthians. Paul describes himself as a minister of the new covenant (2 Cor. 3:6), which has much greater glory than the old (verse 8). Because of what Christ did for him in the new covenant, Christ's love compelled Paul to preach the gospel, the message of reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:11-21). Paul exhorted the Corinthians "not to receive God's grace in vain" (6:1). How were they in danger of doing this? Paul had gone out of his way to serve them, but they were withholding their affections from him (6:3-12). He asked them for a fair exchange, for them to open their hearts to him (6:13). Paul told the Corinthians that they had a duty to give something in response to what they had been given. This response comes in terms of morality (6:14-7:1), which the Corinthians had done (7:8-13), and in terms of affection, which the Corinthians had also done (7:2-7), and in financial generosity, which Paul addresses in chapter 8. This is the way in which the Corinthians had closed their hearts to Paul and withheld their affections.
Paul cited the example of the Macedonian churches, who had given generously, even to the point of self-sacrifice (8:1-5). The example is powerful; the implications are strong that the Corinthians needed to respond to Paul's sacrifices by making sacrifices themselves. But Paul did not make a command (8:8). Instead, he asked first for a turning of the heart. He wanted the Corinthians to give themselves to the Lord first, and then to support Paul. He wanted their gift to be done in sincere love, not from compulsion (8:5, 8). Paul reminded them that Christ had become poor for their sakes; the implication is that the Corinthians should make financial sacrifices in return. But then Paul reduced the pressure, reminding the Corinthians that they could not give more than they had (8:12). Nor did they have to impoverish themselves to enrich others; Paul was only aiming for equity (8:13-14). Paul again expressed confidence in their willingness to give, and added the peer pressure of the Macedonian example and the boasting he had done in Macedonia about the generosity of the Corinthians (8:24-9:5). Paul again noted that the offering must be done willingly, not from compulsion or given grudgingly (9:5, 7). He reminded them that God rewards generosity (9:6-11) and that a good example causes people to praise God and puts the gospel in a favorable setting (9:12-14).
This was a collection for the poor in Judea. But Paul said nothing about tithing. Rather, he appealed to the new covenant environment: Christ had made many sacrifices for them, so they ought to be willing to make a few sacrifices to help one another. In asking for this offering, Paul was also making a financial sacrifice. He had a right to receive financial support himself, but instead of that, he was asking that the offering be given to others. Paul had not asked for any financial support from Corinth (11:7-11; 12:13-16). Instead, he had been supported by Macedonians (11:9). Paul had a right to be supported by the Corinthians, but he did not use it (1 Cor. 9:3-15). This passage in Paul's first letter tells us more about our Christian duty to give financial support to the gospel. Workers should be able to receive benefits of their work (9:7). The old covenant even made provision for oxen to be given benefits of their work (9:9). Throughout his appeal, Paul does not cite any laws of tithing. He says that priests received benefits from their work in the temple (9:13), but he does not cite any percentage. {** Keep in mind the Aaronic priests received 1/10th , or 1%, of the tithe … receive from the Levites] Their example is cited in the same way as the example of soldiers, vineyard workers, herdsmen, oxen, plowers and threshers. It is simply a general principle.
As Jesus said, "The worker deserves his wages" (Luke 10:7). Paul cited the oxen and wages scriptures again in 1 Timothy 5:17-18. Elders, especially those who preach and teach, should be honored financially as well as with respect. Jesus also commanded, "those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel" (1 Cor. 9:14). This implies that those who believe should provide a living for some who preach. There is a financial duty, and there is a promised reward for generosity (though that reward may not necessarily be physical or financial)
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Roc
Absolutely, Dan! Let no one make no mistake here...this issue at hand IS NOT about giving....rather, the issues are (as you pointed out so eloquently) about the compulsory rules-based teaching, its guilt-inducing tactics, its soteriological implications and its means of distribution! These are some of the paramount issues that need to be addressed!
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
They are indicting themselves before God as being thinkers of evil thoughts by judging others, those to whom the tithes are due. They, without saying so, are judging the ministry as not worthy, not good enough, not responsible enough to receive all the tithe and in doing this they are saying that they themselves are more than able to correctly determine these things.
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:
I let the word of God cast down the judgement and correctly determine these things....this is isn't rocket science...who did I hear say that?
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
You know the crazy thing for me is, I dont even care if there is some rule that says you HAVE to tithe.
I just know there is a principle behind it. I know in Gods economy, when I hold up my end, God ends up holding up his end and also my end for me.
I have seen days when there was not enough money to go around. My pastor told my parents not to pay their tithes. they did anyway and money came in the mail "I was just thinking of you and I hope this helps you".
Not once. but 4 times in a six month period. God blesses. im not interested in double thinking God.
God honors givers, he knows their heart....giving is not the issue here.
When you do jump just make sure it is not near the edge of a cliff. But, since you are so jump happy, always jumping to conclusions, you might well remember that "the little prophet" if indeed he is a "little prophet," is not the only one around. The wood is teaming with little prophets. They all have little "Blessing Packs" whereby you can drop a dollar on God (meaning them) and reap a fortune. It makes God out to be a can't-lose slot machine. It is much better than the stock market and many times greater than Vegas.
But it was only a couple days ago that you mentioned the little prophet saying those exact words...as I say...pretty ironic eh?
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