How do you almost receive a gift?

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

It comes from people (and kids) who have stammering lips but have not (fully/at all) spoken in tongues. They were close, were almost about to, but then stopped for whatever reason, before the Spirit baptized them.

But is that Biblical? Where do we see it in scripture where someone 'almost' received the Holy Ghost? And since it's a gift, how can one 'almost' receive it?

[n david]

Originally Posted by obriencp

According to many, he's no longer saved because he hasn't been stiring up the gift.

That's the problem with these "satisfy everyone" statements... who are we to judge whether or not someone is saved based on what a crowd thinks while they're gathered around someone having an intimate moment with our Savior. Some need to see/hear a fluent tongues experience for a certain amount of time... seriously?! If we're speaking in heavenly tongues how can the crowd determine what is fluent. Because we hear some common "tongue" words we're the experts on what is/has taken place to their inner man?

Why can't we tell people to seek the giver as someone already posted and let their fruit bear witness of their salvation. Explain to seekers what can happen so their not afraid to submit, but don't give guidlines as to what has to happen. I've told someone they "almost had it" and often wonder where they ended up. I saw the disappointment, doubt, and fear in their eyes and I regret it still.

IMO, tongues is only the initial evidence of the Holy Ghost infilling. After the initial evidence, the fruit of the spirit should be demonstrated in their life.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

There is nowhere in the book of Acts where it mentions people having stammering lips. Nor does it mention anywhere that people "almost" received the Holy Ghost. People believed, and then received.

Could it be that people are seeking the gift instead of the GIVER, and that is why they are not receiving? That is my take on it. It is taught that you will go to hell if you don't receive, and so therefore, the seeker is seeking the gift, instead of the GIVER.

Paul and all the apostles preached Jesus, people believed, and received in an instant. I believe the method of preaching today has caused people to fear, and seek the gift, instead of the GIVER, Jesus. That is why people aren't receiving, because they are looking for just the gift, instead of the whole package of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. They haven't surrendered their life to Him. They just want the gift without surrender.

Seek the Giver and be willing to surrender all, and the gift of the HG will come. If you seek just the gift... that is why you have people seeking the HG for months or years. They have not truly surrendered to Jesus.

JESUS needs to be preached, not "receive ye the HG". Preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus... preach surrender, preach take up your cross and follow Him... when people truly seek HIM with a surrendered heart, the gift of the HG will follow.

I really like how you put that into perspective! I agree that when people are taught to speak in tongues or they aren't saved, they try to make themselves and it just doesn't happen that way, so you have someone who 'almost' speaks in tongues because they are trying to hard to do it!

In the case I mentioned, it refers to children aged 9 and 11 who have been raised in church as were their parents. And let me preface this by saying these people are wonderful people, and the mother's parents are pastors and also wonderful people, so this isn't about them at all. I think they are doing what they have also been taught with the purest motives in mind, but that statement made today just broke my heart to read. They seriously just don't know any better.

That being said, is this also the reason why people of any age just get discouraged and think the Holy Ghost (speaking in tongues) isn't for them or that God won't give it to them that way?

[Real Realism]

Haven't read through the whole thread yet. But it reminds me of a young woman in our church whom I only have heard speak in "stammering lips" (lalalalalalalalalalala *gasp sob* lalalalalalalalalalala *breath* lalalalalalalalala).

Over the course of three years in attendance at our church. She wasn't raised in church, but has been "in church" for about 7 years.

Now - of course you never know what is going on in someone's life. But from all my interactions with her husband and her, they appear to be a good Christian family and seeking the will of God for their lives.

I've posted on here about my seeking understanding about the "initial evidence" and all the reasons why I lean very strongly toward believing tongues are the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost (based on Biblical examples of the description of receiving the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts).

All that said - for those who also believe in the initial evidence - what's your take on this type of situation? I've often wondered when hearing her pray loudly...is this really "tongues"? If tongues are equivalent to some language, be it natural, currently language; natural, dead language; or heavenly language...repeating the same syllable over and over (stammering lips) doesn't really seem to fit the bill...

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by n david

It depends on how you define "stammering," or what you believe it to be. IMO, there is a difference between stammering and speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues is clear and fluent; stammering is not.

But unless you know all languages, how can you tell if it's stammering or a true language, and does that really matter?

I've heard others speak in their native tongue and sound like nothing but gibberish. Ever heard Chinese?

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

Haven't read through the whole thread yet. But it reminds me of a young woman in our church whom I only have heard speak in "stammering lips" (lalalalalalalalalalala *gasp sob* lalalalalalalalalalala *breath* lalalalalalalalala).

Over the course of three years in attendance at our church. She wasn't raised in church, but has been "in church" for about 7 years.

Now - of course you never know what is going on in someone's life. But from all my interactions with her husband and her, they appear to be a good Christian family and seeking the will of God for their lives.

I've posted on here about my seeking understanding about the "initial evidence" and all the reasons why I lean very strongly toward believing tongues are the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost (based on Biblical examples of the description of receiving the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts).

All that said - for those who also believe in the initial evidence - what's your take on this type of situation? I've often wondered when hearing her pray loudly...is this really "tongues"? If tongues are equivalent to some language, be it natural, currently language; natural, dead language; or heavenly language...repeating the same syllable over and over (stammering lips) doesn't really seem to fit the bill...

She probably says a whole lot more saying 'lalalalalalalala' than some people posting on this forum. LOL!

[ILG]

I was so confused for so many years because I had repented, been baptized in the titles, received the Holy Ghost and was SAVED SAVED SAVED from my old life.

Then, I got into the UPC a couple months later and the pastor told me I wasn't saved! I got baptized in Jesus name and he showed me the scripture where it said that I had to be baptized in Jesus name or I wasn't saved and sure enough, I could see what he said right in front of me. He said my feelings didn't matter, only what the Bible said mattered. He said I was saved now.

This confused me for so, so long. I learned to not trust my perception of anything because I was deceived by my feelings before, having believed I was "saved" when I wasn't! Supposedly, my feelings had told me I was saved but I was deceived and lied to and thank God he brought me into the truth. (TIC)

Yeah, right. It took me over 20 years to break free from that mind twist.

[Real Realism]

Originally Posted by Sasha

She probably says a whole lot more saying 'lalalalalalalala' than some people posting on this forum. LOL!

lol - more like

But, no, really. In my mind I've tried to rationalize it. You know how the languages in Africa where they use tongue clicks. Maybe there's some "lalalalala" language where the number of "lala"s means different things. But then I just realize I'm grasping at straws to try to justify it within the construct that we've created in our Pentecostal narrative.

[obriencp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

In the case I mentioned, it refers to children aged 9 and 11 who have been raised in church as were their parents. And let me preface this by saying these people are wonderful people, and the mother's parents are pastors and also wonderful people, so this isn't about them at all. I think they are doing what they have also been taught with the purest motives in mind, but that statement made today just broke my heart to read. They seriously just don't know any better.

That being said, is this also the reason why people of any age just get discouraged and think the Holy Ghost (speaking in tongues) isn't for them or that God won't give it to them that way?

This. They mean well, but are only products of what has been passed down. I know a young man that tarried like he was supposed to but didn't recieve it evidenced by speaking in fluent tongues and was discouraged to the point of leaving the church.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by n david

IMO, tongues is only the initial evidence of the Holy Ghost infilling. After the initial evidence, the fruit of the spirit should be demonstrated in their life.