A treatise on the upc.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I could say many of them truly desire Christ. Yet once beyond those very basic things it seems they have a lot of truth yet to come to.

We all Christians desire Christ, and we all have a lot of truth yet to come to.
However the UPCI has made more progress than other religious organizations.

I am not a part of them, mainly because I considered them stuck at the Acts 2:38 message, they have not gone further than that.

The road back to the original church is a long one and as far as I am concerned the UPCI has stopped moving forward, they have gone as far as they are willing to go.

It is time for a new movement or organization to arise and takes us farther along forward to another point in the road.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

We all Christians desire Christ, and we all have a lot of truth yet to come to.
However the UPCI has made more progress than other religious organizations.

I am not a part of them, mainly because I considered them stuck at the Acts 2:38 message, they have not gone further than that.

The road back to the original church is a long one and as far as I am concerned the UPCI has stopped moving forward, they have gone as far as they are willing to go.

It is time for a new movement or organization to arise and takes us farther along forward to another point in the road.

Yes I agree they have stopped. I agree that generally they have went farther than most, stuck at Acts 2:38 and the Godhead.

The "New Movement" is what I am looking for. Yeshua promised he would guide us into all truth. Its coming.

[Michael The Disciple]

Did you ever read the Eddie Jones tract "Meet The Originals"?

It was pretty good but ASSUMED THE UPC had already re established the New Testament Church.

[kenj]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Enough with this attacks on the UPCI,

No I am not a member of the UPC, so I got nothing to gain by standing up for them.

however I get tired of such a fine organization being attacked, because they have a mote in their eye, while the attackers themselves have logs in their eyes.

I love my brethren in the UPC, even though many of them may think I am a backslidder, lost, an apostate or a heretic.

I let them attack me however much they want, I will not attack them at all, I will just pray for them, for they are my brethren, even thou they reject me.

Please give an example of how us 'attackers' have 'beams', especially compared to the teachings of the UPC that have been addressed so far.

Pointing out hypocrisy and lies, at whatever cost to one's self, is following the teachings and example of Christ, who died for doing just that.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by kenj

Please give an example of how us 'attackers' have 'beams', especially compared to the teachings of the UPC that have been addressed so far.

Pointing out hypocrisy and lies, at whatever cost to one's self, is following the teachings and example of Christ, who died for doing just that.

OK, so the UPCI has gone overboard with some of their holiness teachings, but at least they have tried in their own misguided ways to keep their people living a holy life.

Those who oppose them, what do they suggest for holiness??

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Did you ever read the Eddie Jones tract "Meet The Originals"?

It was pretty good but ASSUMED THE UPC had already re established the New Testament Church.

Please do not make me laugh, I agree that the UPCI has gone a long way to reestablishing the New Testament Church, but the idea that they have arrived there, is just a riot, they are still a long way from the original New Testament Church.
Does that tract have comics to go along with their premise?

[Rose]

Do we have any churches today that come close to the original New Testament Church? I would love to see some answers instead of opinions or theories!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Rose

Do we have any churches today that come close to the original New Testament Church? I would love to see some answers instead of opinions or theories!

Yes, I believe there are many. However, after having said that I think the major problem amongst these who endeavor to imitate the "original New Testament Church," is that they fail to take into account a major impediment that our Lord Jesus warned about, and which Paul expounded upon in some depth in his writings of I Corinthians 11:18-19

Please note that Jesus warned: "Woe unto the world because of offences! For it MUST needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh." (Matthew 18:7; see also Luke 17:1)

The English word "offence" derives from the Greek "skandalon," which implies 'a stumbling-block or anything that hinders' (the very basis for a 'heresy'). And Jesus advises that not even the Spirit would undertake steps to prevent the subtle, deceitful infiltration of 'things which would hinder or cause one to stumble in their effort to serve the One True and Living God. But it was through the writings of the apostle Paul wherein we are able to find what is perhaps the foremost "reason" why God would 'allow' this disruptive condition to exist amongst His chosen people.

'For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there are divisions among you: and I partly believe it. For there MUST be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

Whereas Christ Jesus stated that this 'highly-disruptive' condition amongst His chosen disciples (the Church) 'must needs be,' we find it is by way of Paul's writings which exposes this condition amongst the saints of the early Church at Corinth that the underlying "reason" why God would 'allow' it to prevail is made known. And what is this "reason"? Well, Paul advises us that it was so that those to whom God had disclosed the truth which would expose such "heresies" would be made known among the members of the Church ("they which are approved").

The major problem as I have been made to understand it, is that within the present-day groups which endeavor to 'mirror' the original church of the New Testament, an elect caste, called the "clergy" or "licensed ministry," has wrest control, and therein 'quieted' the voices of those to whom God has made known the "heresies" which serve to hinder His chosen people from fulfilling the mission which He has ordained that His church perform upon the earth during these perilous final days preceding the 2nd coming of our Lord. I am comforted in knowing that even this shall soon come to an end, but perhaps not until the One True Church comes under the prophesied severe persecution of the anti-Christ that is to come.

There's much more that can be written about these matters, but I pray that this brief explanation will serve to answer your question. In a nutshell, yes, there are many groups (of which the UPCI is perhaps the largest and best known) which do truly seek to 'mirror' the original church of Acts, but because of the 'human condition' of pride and conceit, I fear that we will not realize the fullness of the greatness of all that God had entrusted to us until persecution comes (as surely it will).

[kenj]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

OK, so the UPCI has gone overboard with some of their holiness teachings, but at least they have tried in their own misguided ways to keep their people living a holy life.

Those who oppose them, what do they suggest for holiness??

Sorry, but rejecting the teachings of Christ to follow the rules of men is not in any way a 'holy life'.

One doesn't have to spend a lot of time in a church like the UPC I attended to see just how unholy that is.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Lafon

But it was through the writings of the apostle Paul wherein we are able to find what is perhaps the foremost "reason" why God would 'allow' this disruptive condition to exist amongst His chosen people.

'For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there are divisions among you: and I partly believe it. For there MUST be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

Whereas Christ Jesus stated that this 'highly-disruptive' condition amongst His chosen disciples (the Church) 'must needs be,' we find it is by way of Paul's writings which exposes this condition amongst the saints of the early Church at Corinth that the underlying "reason" why God would 'allow' it to prevail is made known. And what is this "reason"? Well, Paul advises us that it was so that those to whom God had disclosed the truth which would expose such "heresies" would be made known among the members of the Church ("they which are approved").

The major problem as I have been made to understand it, is that within the present-day groups which endeavor to 'mirror' the original church of the New Testament, an elect caste, called the "clergy" or "licensed ministry," has wrest control, and therein 'quieted' the voices of those to whom God has made known the "heresies" which serve to hinder His chosen people from fulfilling the mission which He has ordained that His church perform upon the earth during these perilous final days preceding the 2nd coming of our Lord. I am comforted in knowing that even this shall soon come to an end, but perhaps not until the One True Church comes under the prophesied severe persecution of the anti-Christ that is to come.

There's much more that can be written about these matters, but I pray that this brief explanation will serve to answer your question. In a nutshell, yes, there are many groups (of which the UPCI is perhaps the largest and best known) which do truly seek to 'mirror' the original church of Acts, but because of the 'human condition' of pride and conceit, I fear that we will not realize the fullness of the greatness of all that God had entrusted to us until persecution comes (as surely it will).

Since the body of Christ is a living organism, this modern day NT organism kind of reminds me of a structural-isomer when you put it this way.