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  #31  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:17 AM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Consider this. If I had a sin or sins in my life would that excuse anyone else? Of course not. It would just mean I who taught the truth of Bible Perfection either was a hypocrite or simply failed God.

Everyone else who might then mock me would still be fully accountable to doing Gods will.

When we ARE doing Gods will on a regular basis does that make us something great? Super spiritual?

Luke 17:7-10

7But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle , will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat ?8And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup , and gird thyself , and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken ; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink ?9Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.10So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say , We are unprofitable servants : we have done that which was our duty to do .
Ok you are not going to answer. I will say my answer would be no i am not 100% obedient/submitted to God. Correct me if wrong but your answer probably the same.If so, if you die would you be lost formissing the mark of 100%?
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Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


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  #32  
Old 02-14-2013, 04:01 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

I would agree that no sin can or will enter heaven. We must live holy lives if we are to make it into heaven
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  #33  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:06 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I would agree that no sin can or will enter heaven. We must live holy lives if we are to make it into heaven
Many say that God cannot tolerate sin. This obvisious is not true, for He has tolerated it since Eden!!! He created the context for sin and evil to exist, it purpose is a part of His plan. It is not that it is good, it is not, it is simply that it has its purpose in buffeting and maturing humanity. If it did not have a purpose God would not have allow it.

The above is an established fact, the question is: Will Christianity learn its purpose, and recieve the growth in spite it, or will we simply rail at sin and evil!!!

If the new earth is here, God already allows sins. Of course, He will eventually redeem all the pain and suffering, as all come to confess Jesus as Lord.
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  #34  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:46 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Ok you are not going to answer. I will say my answer would be no i am not 100% obedient/submitted to God. Correct me if wrong but your answer probably the same.If so, if you die would you be lost formissing the mark of 100%?
Well if we know we have sin in our lives we should be very afraid. If I knew I had a sin in my life I realize from scripture that my soul would be in grave danger. If one confess the sin and repents they can start over.

If one allows the sin to stay....and when I say "sin" I mean something described in the scriptures as a sin they can expect fiery judment according to the Apostole.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb. 10:26

So whether it be you or whether it be me NO ONE should expect to see Heaven if there is sin in their life.
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  #35  
Old 02-14-2013, 05:56 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
interesting scripture:

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies , we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
KJV


when were they reconciled? "when we were enemies" Doesn't say "after you believed"
2 Cor 5
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Yes, God has RECONCILED US ALL to himself WHILE we were his enemies through the death of his Son. Jesus died for us while we yet SINNERS.

But notice, Paul then goes on to say "Be reconciled to God"

God's done his part, that is "not counting men's sins against them."
But man has to do his part by receiving the gift of righteousness by faith in Christ.
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  #36  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:12 PM
TGBTG TGBTG is offline
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

To the UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION proponents:

This is the difference between the sin through Adam and the righteousness through Jesus Christ:

Rom 5
16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men.

Adam's sin resulted in condemnation for all.
Jesus' obedience resulted in justification for all (not counting men's sins against them).

The difference HOWEVER is shown in both Rom 5:17 and 2 Cor 5:20
Rom 5:17 says "those who RECEIVE God's grace"
2 Cor 5:20 says "Be reconciled to God"
So we see that man has to receive the grace of God

In a nutshell, this was/is Paul's gospel: "God has reconciled you to himself. Now, reconcile yourself to God."

Reconciliation takes MORE than one party.
Forgiveness can occur as a result on ONLY ONE party's effort, but it takes both parties involved for reconciliation to occur.

UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION is therefore false based on the following:
1. That sinful man does not have to consciously receive the grace of God (EVEN THOUGH Rom 5:17 and 2 Cor 5:20 says man has to put his faith in Jesus Christ to be justifed)
2. If justification is received without belief in Christ (i.e no effort from man) just like condemnation was received from Adam (without effort from man), then those who do not believe in Christ should not have to go through the "refiner's fire" (as universal reconciliation claims).
That is, since ALL MEN partake of God's justification through Christ without even putting their faith in Jesus, then, ALL men should go straight to heaven.

Therefore UNIVERSALISTS, by claiming that unrepentant sinners will go through the "refiner's fire" PROVE (unfortunately for their doctrine) that an unrepentant sinner is NOT justified in the sight of God.
Therefore, their whole claim that justification is received EXACTLY the same way the condemnation was received falls into shambles.

My UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION proponents, if ALL men receive justification through Christ (without belief) just like condemnation through Adam (without belief), then, why do you teach that unrepentant sinners will still go through the "refiner's fire?"

Now, on the other extreme is LIMITED ATONEMENT. This is based on the belief that because some people will go to the lake of fire, therefore, their sins MUST not have been atoned for by Jesus Christ.
Again, the answer to this teaching is found in Rom 5:17 and 2 Cor 5:20
1. We were reconciled to God while we were his enemies by Christ's death
2. We need to receive the grace of God through faith in Christ.

So both UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION and LIMITED ATONEMENT are wrong.
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  #37  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Luke View Post
I would agree that no sin can or will enter heaven. We must live holy lives if we are to make it into heaven
Are you 100% sin free?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #38  
Old 02-14-2013, 06:33 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Well if we know we have sin in our lives we should be very afraid. If I knew I had a sin in my life I realize from scripture that my soul would be in grave danger. If one confess the sin and repents they can start over.

If one allows the sin to stay....and when I say "sin" I mean something described in the scriptures as a sin they can expect fiery judment according to the Apostole.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Heb. 10:26

So whether it be you or whether it be me NO ONE should expect to see Heaven if there is sin in their life.
So you have no sin right now?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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  #39  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:22 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
So you have no sin right now?
No I am sitting here looking at the computer screen and not committing any sin. Some teach you cant go one day without sin. Some teach one hour. Some teach one minute. Some believe we ARE sin in effect.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 02-14-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:26 PM
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Re: Paul's gospel must be accepted

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
No I am sitting here looking at the computer screen and not committing any sin.
Talking about your lifestyle in general. walking in perfection?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
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