TD Jakes echurch

[Michael The Disciple]

DM,

Wonder what TD meant when he said this?

“Ruth turns to Naomi and says “I shall not leave thee.” She makes her statement to this woman…that sounds somewhat, somewhere in between poetry, intimacy, and borders on lesbianism. People don’t even know how to explain what Ruth said to Naomi. It makes them uncomfortable. They’re afraid to talk about it. They don’t want to teach on it. Same thing with David and Jonathan…where there were same-sex relationships getting too close, people don’t even know what to say.”

[trialedbyfire]

[QUOTE=Dedicated Mind;1195743]i would venture to say that td jakes ministry has baptized more people in jesus name than any other apostolic in the history of christianity. he has the biggest apostolic church in history. he is the most effective apostolic minister in the history of christianity outside of paul. i think a case can be made. any challengers?[/QUOTE


No, I don't think Bishop Jakes is the closest thing to "Paul" in this century. I think that's a very foolish and westernized assumption.

Maybe if you if ignore the work of modern foreign missionaries such as Bishop Samuel Smith, Bishop Teklemariam who regularly leads revivals across East African with hundreds of thousands in attendance. Or forget that Jones, Brazier, and Smith all had similar church sizes and had more churches and congregants under them because they all served in high leadership positions in a large Apostolic Organization... or if you ignore the fact that without GT Haywood, Bishop Bonner, RC Lawson, AD Urshan, Samuel Hancock, Bishop Grimes, and others for that matter there would be no Jakes, Jones, or Brazier.

Then if you take Pentecost alone I personally believe Bishop CH Mason, William Seymore, JO Patterson, and Charles Parham have had more of an effect on the apostolic Movement then Jakes. Heck, why not throw Oral Roberts and AA Allen in there? GE Patterson may have baptized more people in Jesus Name then Jakes for that matter.

In addition Jake's acceptance of yoga and Oprah Winfrey's New Age feel good religious philosophies make him and Paul doctrinally night and day.

With all that said the argument I futile anyway. Paul's ministry was Paul's alone. And Jakes' is Jakes', and Jakes is more so based on his own celebrity persona then on sound Biblical doctrine, which it is a shame he and the Bradys no longer teach.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

DM,

Wonder what TD meant when he said this?

He meant "I'm not bold enough to condemn homosexuality as sin but the church isn't liberal enough to outright support it so I'll just ride the fence until I fall off."

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

He meant "I'm not bold enough to condemn homosexuality as sin but the church isn't liberal enough to outright support it so I'll just ride the fence until I fall off."

lol. Good explanation.

[Michael The Disciple]

Hmmm I have found a few places where TD does call it sin but yet refuses to say they who commit such and dont get saved will be lost.

[Dedicated Mind]

[quote=trialedbyfire;1195960]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

i would venture to say that td jakes ministry has baptized more people in jesus name than any other apostolic in the history of christianity. he has the biggest apostolic church in history. he is the most effective apostolic minister in the history of christianity outside of paul. i think a case can be made. any challengers?[/QUOTE


No, I don't think Bishop Jakes is the closest thing to "Paul" in this century. I think that's a very foolish and westernized assumption.

Maybe if you if ignore the work of modern foreign missionaries such as Bishop Samuel Smith, Bishop Teklemariam who regularly leads revivals across East African with hundreds of thousands in attendance. Or forget that Jones, Brazier, and Smith all had similar church sizes and had more churches and congregants under them because they all served in high leadership positions in a large Apostolic Organization... or if you ignore the fact that without GT Haywood, Bishop Bonner, RC Lawson, AD Urshan, Samuel Hancock, Bishop Grimes, and others for that matter there would be no Jakes, Jones, or Brazier.

Then if you take Pentecost alone I personally believe Bishop CH Mason, William Seymore, JO Patterson, and Charles Parham have had more of an effect on the apostolic Movement then Jakes. Heck, why not throw Oral Roberts and AA Allen in there? GE Patterson may have baptized more people in Jesus Name then Jakes for that matter.

In addition Jake's acceptance of yoga and Oprah Winfrey's New Age feel good religious philosophies make him and Paul doctrinally night and day.

With all that said the argument I futile anyway. Paul's ministry was Paul's alone. And Jakes' is Jakes', and Jakes is more so based on his own celebrity persona then on sound Biblical doctrine, which it is a shame he and the Bradys no longer teach.

none of the people you have mentioned have a world wide television and internet ministry. where are their ministries? most do not even have an internet presence. brazier is local, jones is local, ge was tv only not internet. jakes can pack the people in africa just like tek, but tek can't get the same crowds in the us. jakes may not be perfect but no one has his reach and that is not a westernized view, that is reality. name the websites of all these great leaders you mention.

[trialedbyfire]

[QUOTE=Dedicated Mind;1196004]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

none of the people you have mentioned have a world wide television and internet ministry. where are their ministries? most do not even have an internet presence. brazier is local, jones is local, ge was tv only not internet. jakes can pack the people in africa just like tek, but tek can't get the same crowds in the us. jakes may not be perfect but no one has his reach and that is not a westernized view, that is reality. name the websites of all these great leaders you mention.

Either now you're lying or have just been living under a rock for the past two decades. You're talking to someone who has been in Pentecost for some time and has been under the ministries of well-known Bishops and Pastors in numerous organizations for years. Please go take a seat...

Jones and Brazier have both been on NATIONAL Television since I was a little COGIC kid and Jones first took over Greater Bethany. Every individual I mentioned besides those who's ministries predated television had/have a television ministry. GE Patterson had one of the most highly watched and televised Christian programs Bountiful Blessings Broadcast for years. Jones has had the Fresh Oil Broadcast for almost a decade if not longer. For that matter Chucky Ellis has been on national television longer then Bishop Jakes. His television ministry started in 1995, Chucky was on television as assistant pastor of his father's church Greater Grace Temple (which would later become his own church) right before then.

http://www.noeljonesministries.org/index.html

On that note I forgot to throw in TBN's favorite: George Bloomer. Yes... he's oneness as well.

Yes, Jakes is well known and popular in the west. However his notoriety does not go any further then the west. He draws crowds of 40-50 thousand per-event/conference. So what? Have you seen this video of revivals in Ethiopia?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyO98sr275U

4 languages spoken, 400,000 people in attendance, 140,000 receive the Holy Ghost, that's ministry, not writing books and flying around with diplomats and celebrities. When you can draw that kind of crowd in a nation with very little tv exposure you're doing something. Jakes is a business man, not an Apostle. The majority of his church's money comes from numerous book and movie deals, public speaking engagements and interviews. It's the way ALOT of ministries are going including that of the Owens', the Bradys, Juanita Bynum, Joyce Meyer, etc. The reason why these missionaries in Ethiopia aren't well known in the west is because they don't have best-selling novels out and their not producing any new ignorant family comedies that aren't worth the $9 to sit in the movie theater to watch (...going off on my little tangent here...). It's the megachurch syndrome, but it only goes so far.

I wonder exactly how many of TD Jakes' 17,000 regular and irregular attendees actually know the doctrine which Jakes teaches if he teaches any at all anymore. I am well aware the church baptizes it's members in Jesus Name but how many attendees of their church have actually submitted themselves to membership and baptism? How many have received the Holy Ghost? How many could actively describe and defend key doctrines that Jakes claims his church believes in? I remember being on a plane to San Antonio discussing Noel Jones and Jakes with a woman born and raised outside of Gardena. She said she'd been to both churches numerous times for years, even regularly attended Jones' church for quite some time, never knew Jones was Apostolic and hadn't a clue Jakes preached Jesus name and probably wouldn't have gone if she knew.

This is my point. Paul kept track of how many souls were saved, his concern was the salvation of souls through the preaching of the gospel, not church attendance and popularity.

[Dedicated Mind]

jones and brazier are on local tv. if they are national what channel? i've seen the youtube but jakes reaches hundreds of millions through international tv and internet. his reach is still greater even though i agree that he is not indoctrinating as many.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

jones and brazier are on local tv. if they are national what channel? i've seen the youtube but jakes reaches hundreds of millions through international tv and internet. his reach is still greater even though i agree that he is not indoctrinating as many.

Please stop lying. Jones and Brazier were and are both on the Word Network which is a nationally broadcasted television station. Jones has been featured on TBN as well. So has Chucky Ellis who has huge stakes in the Word network and in Daystar, and Bloomer has been on TBN, has a program on the Word Network, and Daystar, and Streamingfaith. Jones, Ellis, and Bloomer all stream their services live on the internet as do most churches these days. The fact is the reason this isn't registering toyou is because it's becoming apparent that you're not as aware of the scope of the Apostolic movement as you may have thought. Yes it runs deeper then "Jakes", Jakes is not the ancor of our faith, quite the contrary Jakes rode the Apostolic movement's coat tails to the top of the celebrity preacher game. our style of preaching is popular, our doctrine is not. Keep our style of preaching and get rid of the doctrine, and you get big money, big enterprise.

[Dedicated Mind]

I have dish network and wordnetwork isn't on it. so that is why I don't know about word network. not sure how many subscribers to word. so i grant you standing in your argument. but I still think jakes has a larger reach, not sure if word is international like tbn and daystar.