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  #31  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:17 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
Are you sure you didn't know Norman Schwartzkopf? He was the original "Stormin' Normin"!
I bet people didn't fall asleep in the middle of one of his sermons.
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  #32  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:28 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
...
I believe God has rejected the ideals and methods of traditional Oneness Pentecostalism and is pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh.
...
.
Jesus came with a fresh message and was despised by the religionists of His day. They could not control Him or His followers. The religionists of His day had a faith based on God's Word and revelation but they had smothered it with traditions and it had become dead and formal.

The reformation under Martin Luther and other leaders challenged a large, corrupt religious establishment which offered little in the way of a live and vibrant life-changing message. Various "Protestant" churches developed based on Scripture vs tradition. Lots of traditions were carried over into those churches. Periods of revival came and things "happened" in those churches but in time tradition, formality, and maintaining the status quo took over.

Around the end of the 1800's and beginning of the 1900's the Holy Spirit was poured out in Armenia, India, Topeka, Houston, Los Angeles and around the world. Another great shake up as the traditional churches resisted and fought against the new move of the Spirit. We who consider ourselves Apostolic or Pentecostal or Charismatic look back to those days as our heritage and beginning.

In the 1940's the Pentecostal or Apostolic churches had become fat, lazy, careless, and formal and God began to move outside those churches in new ways. The Latter Rain movement placed a renewed emphasis on the Holy Spirit and His working and gifting. A few years later the Healing Revival (Branham, Coe, Allen, Roberts, etc) brought another emphasis on God's power and intervention in the lives of individuals. FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International) developed as a place for people to gather and fellowship outside the mainline denominational churches and outside the mainline Pentecostal/Apostolic churches.

A few more years later and we saw the Charismatic movement and the Jesus People. Since then we've seen the Vineyard, Willow Creek, Saddle Back, the Third Wave, and the Prophetic/Intercession movement.

Each time God has moved there has been:
1. decline in the established church,
2. God moves outside the established church,
3. and the established church rejects the move of God.
4. In time the latest move of God becomes organized and then stagnant.

Many of our churches, UPC, AoG, CoG, etc have become overly organized and ingrown and God just starts moving outside the established religious order.

Has God left the UPC and the AoG and the Vineyard and the FGBMFI? No, He's still working there but we have pretty well hindered Him and boxed Him in and only recognize what He does if it agrees with our own protocol. That's why He goes "outside the camp" where He can find those who are hungering and thirsting after Him and who long more for God than they do for the Manuals, rules, protocol, human leadership, politics, etc.
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  #33  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:30 PM
Brad Murphy Brad Murphy is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
As a psychologist, when I see a church people don't like called a cult, it is more of a name calling issue.
I don't see them as "cultic" at all. Some are more strict than others but the same applies to employers.
Coadie,

I guess this is none of my business... but how many careers/degrees/professions do you have? Just curious...
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  #34  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:38 PM
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Charnock Charnock is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

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Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
Oneness Pentecostalism is too defined.

The God of Oneness Pentecostals is limited. He can only move along predictable channels that church elders have carved out. In this way he is nothing more than an image created by man.

As Biblical knowledge has increased, and many of the standards of the past have been exposed as human creations with no scriptural foundation, organizational leaders have began appealing to our sense of reverence and respect for our ancestors instead of directing us to a more perfect way.

I believe God has rejected the ideals and methods of traditional Oneness Pentecostalism and is pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Survival of the fittest has a spiritual application. Only the strong survive, and the extra-biblical doctrines of Oneness Pentecostals are a poor substitute for spiritual strength.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Jesus came with a fresh message and was despised by the religionists of His day. They could not control Him or His followers. The religionists of His day had a faith based on God's Word and revelation but they had smothered it with traditions and it had become dead and formal.

The reformation under Martin Luther and other leaders challenged a large, corrupt religious establishment which offered little in the way of a live and vibrant life-changing message. Various "Protestant" churches developed based on Scripture vs tradition. Lots of traditions were carried over into those churches. Periods of revival came and things "happened" in those churches but in time tradition, formality, and maintaining the status quo took over.

Around the end of the 1800's and beginning of the 1900's the Holy Spirit was poured out in Armenia, India, Topeka, Houston, Los Angeles and around the world. Another great shake up as the traditional churches resisted and fought against the new move of the Spirit. We who consider ourselves Apostolic or Pentecostal or Charismatic look back to those days as our heritage and beginning.

In the 1940's the Pentecostal or Apostolic churches had become fat, lazy, careless, and formal and God began to move outside those churches in new ways. The Latter Rain movement placed a renewed emphasis on the Holy Spirit and His working and gifting. A few years later the Healing Revival (Branham, Coe, Allen, Roberts, etc) brought another emphasis on God's power and intervention in the lives of individuals. FGBMFI (Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International) developed as a place for people to gather and fellowship outside the mainline denominational churches and outside the mainline Pentecostal/Apostolic churches.

A few more years later and we saw the Charismatic movement and the Jesus People. Since then we've seen the Vineyard, Willow Creek, Saddle Back, the Third Wave, and the Prophetic/Intercession movement.

Each time God has moved there has been:
1. decline in the established church,
2. God moves outside the established church,
3. and the established church rejects the move of God.
4. In time the latest move of God becomes organized and then stagnant.

Many of our churches, UPC, AoG, CoG, etc have become overly organized and ingrown and God just starts moving outside the established religious order.

Has God left the UPC and the AoG and the Vineyard and the FGBMFI? No, He's still working there but we have pretty well hindered Him and boxed Him in and only recognize what He does if it agrees with our own protocol. That's why He goes "outside the camp" where He can find those who are hungering and thirsting after Him and who long more for God than they do for the Manuals, rules, protocol, human leadership, politics, etc.
We agree!
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
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  #35  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:46 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Sam and Charnock hit a homerun!
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  #36  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:49 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coadie View Post
Who calls it rotting?



Is it a cult also?
Cult, Coadie has multiple definitions ... here it is used in the same way we use cult of personality ... cult of the past ... is the individual veneration or worship of an ideal.

Please take this to your boring Cults thread.
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  #37  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:51 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

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Originally Posted by Brad Murphy View Post
Coadie,

I guess this is none of my business... but how many careers/degrees/professions do you have? Just curious...
7
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  #38  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:52 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
Bruce Tuckman said that every group goes through five stages.

1. Forming
2. Storming
3. Norming
4. Performing
5. Adjourning
Charnock, where do you see this group?
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  #39  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:55 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAII View Post
Cult, Coadie has multiple definitions ... here it is used in the same way we use cult of personality ... cult of the past ... is the individual veneration or worship of an ideal.

Please take this to your boring Cults thread.
How long have you been wrestling with the abyss of your past?
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  #40  
Old 10-07-2010, 01:56 PM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Cult of the Past: Apostolic Identity Revealed?

Charnock, did anything stand out to you from Scott Graham's message to the youth ... "Trickle Down Theology"?
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