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  #31  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:54 AM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by SeekingOne View Post
So, so true. On the bright side, many churches are now realizing that the most effective way to become a missionary is to move to where ever and work there. They know you must live among them, as they live. They mostly just need money for plane trips and visas.

The goal is to bring people to God, train a few natives to lead the church plant and get out of there within a couple of years and move on to the next unreached people. They keep close contact with the native leaders and sometimes send THEM support so that they have more time to spend raising up missionaries from their own church to go out.

It is so exciting to see new church plants working hard to send their own missionaries out into, sometimes, hostile villages that are considered their enemies.


that is so true...national missionaries are the key....
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  #32  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:56 AM
DAII DAII is offline
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

The post-trib vs. pre-trib debate is heating up in a few of the Spanish churches in the UPCI .... big time.

To the point of drama.
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  #33  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:01 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by MarshBea View Post
WOW!!!! Please tell me you're joking.
What? And deprive a monk of his gruel?
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  #34  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:01 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Who are the armies that return with Jesus in Revelation 19:14?

Revelation 19:11-15 (King James Version)

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Bump.
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Jeremiah chapter 4 and verse 21 KJV
How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?


1 Cor. chapter 14 and verse 8 KJV
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


Joel chapter 2 and verse 1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
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  #35  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:03 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by Standards View Post
Bump.
Revelation 12:7?

This was the "UFO War" when the fallen angels built the "Face" on Mars and other more benign aliens built the Great Pyramid at Giza for Shem/Melchizedek to use as an altar.
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  #36  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:04 AM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are overcomers.

Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lord’s only representatives in that place of hatred; yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, “In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.” We too, are to be overcomers — bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting “Hallelujah! Hallelujah!” for I have found where it is written that Jesus said, “He that overcometh shall inherit all things: and I will be His God, and he shall be My son.” This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive — but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.

Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick. “Yes, the Lord will heal me,” Betsy said with confidence. She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.

It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are some of the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, “Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated — raptured.” Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when the tribulation comes — to stand and not faint.
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it. We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus’ sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, “Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, “Nothing could be any worse than today.” But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy:

If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you; on their part evil is spoken of, but on your part He is glorified (1 Peter 3:14).
I found myself saying, “Hallelujah! Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!”

In America, the churches sing, “Let the congregation escape tribulation,” but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone, more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, “Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?”

The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.

“When I was a little girl,” I said, “I went to my father and said, ‘Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a marty for Jesus Christ.’”

“Tell me,” said Father, “When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before?”

“No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train.”

“That is right,” my father said, “and so it is with God’s strength. Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. He will supply all you need — just in time....”

My African friends were nodding and smiling. Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing,

In the sweet, by and by, we shall meet on that beautiful shore.
Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed. I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.

But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution? First we need to feed on the word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.

Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of history, but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive and sitting at the right hand of God.

We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.

In the coming persecution, we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other. But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting. The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian’s life.

Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible Nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also. But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

“When I am weak, then I shall be strong,” the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord; we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down.

“Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him,” for I know that to all who overcome, He shall give the crown of life. Hallelujah!

Corrie ten Boom—1974
The fellowship of his sufferings. The servant is not greater than his Master.

Thanks for sharing that, Sis Alvear. I want to be ready whether I have to go through THE great tribulation or not.
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His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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  #37  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:05 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
If Rev.19 is referring to angels, why isn't this indicated clearly? It makes no mention of heavenly beings. I don't think John would fail to mention this.
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Jeremiah chapter 4 and verse 21 KJV
How long shall I see the standard, and hear the sound of the trumpet?


1 Cor. chapter 14 and verse 8 KJV
8For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


Joel chapter 2 and verse 1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
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  #38  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:09 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by Standards View Post
If Rev.19 is referring to angels, why isn't this indicated clearly? It makes no mention of heavenly beings. I don't think John would fail to mention this.
Just because you fail to understand doesn't mean that John failed to mention anything.

Does Revelation 12 come right out say that these were "UFO aliens who built the 'Face' on Mars?" No, it doesn't. Yet we know this is true because NASA has photographs of the Face on Mars.
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  #39  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:14 AM
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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On the other hand, one must at least wonder why all that stuff is in there!

Yeah, true. Can you explain it to me?
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  #40  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:31 AM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: Pre-tribbers don't know their Bible

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Originally Posted by Standards View Post
If Rev.19 is referring to angels, why isn't this indicated clearly? It makes no mention of heavenly beings. I don't think John would fail to mention this.
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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Just because you fail to understand doesn't mean that John failed to mention anything.

Does Revelation 12 come right out say that these were "UFO aliens who built the 'Face' on Mars?" No, it doesn't. Yet we know this is true because NASA has photographs of the Face on Mars.
C'mon! Log back in as Stan and respond. If you want to play with your sock puppets you've got to get them all moving at the same time.
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