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03-07-2013, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,649
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
So then Seagraves feels that water baptism is not essential to being born again? Holy Spirit baptism is not essential to being born again?
A shame if thats true. It would just prove again that Bible College theologians dont necessarily know more than an average saint who seeks God. Thats not some deep teaching its just plain old false doctrine.
Oneness Pentecostals are in a huge slide. They have hardly any teachers to look up to.
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03-07-2013, 11:22 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,396
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
So then Seagraves feels that water baptism is not essential to being born again? Holy Spirit baptism is not essential to being born again?
A shame if thats true. It would just prove again that Bible College theologians dont necessarily know more than an average saint who seeks God. Thats not some deep teaching its just plain old false doctrine.
Oneness Pentecostals are in a huge slide. They have hardly any teachers to look up to.
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You are not going to change them though & the claims will be made of "legalism" & "works based" & not "Christ based."
Michael, if they haven't gotten it yet, they will never I believe.
Sad.
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03-07-2013, 11:25 AM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
So then Seagraves feels that water baptism is not essential to being born again? Holy Spirit baptism is not essential to being born again?
A shame if thats true. It would just prove again that Bible College theologians dont necessarily know more than an average saint who seeks God. Thats not some deep teaching its just plain old false doctrine.
Oneness Pentecostals are in a huge slide. They have hardly any teachers to look up to.
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We have the only teacher, Jesus Christ.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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03-07-2013, 11:30 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,396
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy
We have the only teacher, Jesus Christ.
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Amen Cindy! Did the Apostles get it wrong?
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03-07-2013, 11:43 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
So then Seagraves feels that water baptism is not essential to being born again? Holy Spirit baptism is not essential to being born again?
A shame if thats true. It would just prove again that Bible College theologians dont necessarily know more than an average saint who seeks God. Thats not some deep teaching its just plain old false doctrine.
Oneness Pentecostals are in a huge slide. They have hardly any teachers to look up to.
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Baloney. He did not state that. Perhaps the opposite is inferred.
In fact, if someone REJECTS water and Holy Spirit baptism, I believe it speaks to the "faith" that he claims to have.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-07-2013, 11:48 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Keith
I have commented extensively on this article. The point is that justification is seperate from Regeneration. Something the hard 3 steppers struggle with. They can't get it into their mindset that God justifies the genuine believer at the point of intial faith, having not yet being baptized or receiving the Spirit.
In otherwords I believe that justification is the beginning of salvation but not the end of it. A person who has genuine faith in God that justifies will have no problem having union with Christ at Baptism and being regenerated by the Spirit. Not all or nothing soteriology.
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Well stated.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-07-2013, 01:49 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,840
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Keith
I have commented extensively on this article. The point is that justification is seperate from Regeneration. Something the hard 3 steppers struggle with. They can't get it into their mindset that God justifies the genuine believer at the point of intial faith, having not yet being baptized or receiving the Spirit.
In otherwords I believe that justification is the beginning of salvation but not the end of it. A person who has genuine faith in God that justifies will have no problem having union with Christ at Baptism and being regenerated by the Spirit. Not all or nothing soteriology.
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Although this comment is three years old I don't know if I saw it or this thread before. In any case it is an excellent post getting to the root of the matter.
As my pastor says "the question should not be does one have to be baptized but why would someone not want to be baptized?" The same thing goes for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-07-2013, 01:50 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,089
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Although this comment is three years old I don't know if I saw it or this thread before. In any case it is an excellent post getting to the root of the matter.
As my pastor says "the question should not be does one have to be baptized but why would someone not want to be baptized?" The same thing goes for the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
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I am greedy I want all that God has to offer me!
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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03-07-2013, 02:07 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,711
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
i believe everyone will be judged individually by the standard of christ whether muslim, buddhist, christian or apostolic. when someone is saved, whether at faith, baptism or tongues is inconsequential.
__________________
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03-07-2013, 02:10 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,089
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Re: The Role of Faith in Justification by D. Segra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
i believe everyone will be judged individually by the standard of christ whether muslim, buddhist, christian or apostolic. when someone is saved, whether at faith, baptism or tongues is inconsequential.
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Just based on the Words of Christ He tells me that they are not required for His Salvation plan.
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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