What if our Appeal is Appalling?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

No I don't mean that.

It seems many are not buying in at a church service (even though the baptisms etc take place there) but rather it seems they are convinced through personal friendships and life outside the church services more than in the past.

I believe that most people come and stay because we work on friendships.
Having them fill out a card, and never build a relationship will never create stickability. Relationship take work, and both sides have to WANT to work on the relationship. We won't always have understandings, but will have misunderstandings. We always have to be able to stick it out and work with each other. People stay because of our spiritual commitment to them and their family members. A wife who is attending services without her husband cannot place him on the back burner while she asks for prayer to say his soul.
The ministers need to seek him out and see if we can do anything to build a relationship.

In Jesus' Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I believe that most people come and stay because we work on friendships. Having them fill out a card, and never build a relationship will never create stickability. Relationship take work, and both sides have to WANT to work on the relationship. We won't always have understandings, but will have misunderstandings. We always have to be able to stick it out and work with each other. People stay because of our spiritual commitment to them and their family members. A wife who is attending services without her husband cannot place him on the back burner while she asks for prayer to say his soul.
The ministers need to seek him out and see if we can do anything to build a relationship.

In Jesus' Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I think you are right. If they get a genuine meaningful relationship with God and His people they might stay in spite of undesirable style etc.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I am seeing the business of doing "church" becoming less influential and personal relationship and practical application soaring...The primary goal does not seem to be get people to come to church anymore.

Oops! I accidently repeated your post here...well, maybe not accidently.

You are perfectly correct, because there exists no perfect correlation between the bolded portions.

[Praxeas]

I don't care for the "total abandon" style of church. If everyone is worshiping, really reaching out but not running around in circles or doing a pentecostal jig that's enough. Someone getting emotionally stirred from time to time is ok, but I don't think anything beyond raised hands and uplifted voices ought to be characterized as normal or regular "Pentecostal worship"

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't care for the "total abandon" style of church. If everyone is worshiping, really reaching out but not running around in circles or doing a pentecostal jig that's enough. Someone getting emotionally stirred from time to time is ok, but I don't think anything beyond raised hands and uplifted voices ought to be characterized as normal or regular "Pentecostal worship"

I would like to agree, but, this would depend on the church and what the expectations are for one "really" worshiping.

If it's not the norm, is there still a desire and press toward that end?

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Are we appalling to more than we are appealing to?

I think you ask some very valid questions, but for time's sake, I will briefly respond to one that stood out. I assume by "we" you intend to reference organized religion within the Apostolic movement. If that is the case, then I would say this. The essence of Christianity primarily involves individuals and their relationship to God first, and then how they relate to others. Organized religion attempts to contextualize this, but does so at a cost. The interpretation, style, and preferences of a few men ultimately end up defining a denomination's culture, which will never reflect universal values, or more specifically, values "appealing" to everyone (even those of like precious faith).

That is why Jesus Christ became the standard for all to see. He was saying, "See, here I am, this is what God would do in the flesh!" We'll never get it "just right" as long as we live in this Terra Firma, but focusing on our relationship with Him is the best we can hope for. If people find Jesus Christ unappealing, then that is one thing, and they will regard His Body no differently. If they find your religion appalling, that is altogether different. Religions are identifiers based on culture and the knowledge of it's leaders. Relationship with God does not equal a membership in religion. Perhaps it could be that some people find organized religion appalling, and all of it's man made tendencies?

[pelathais]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Are we appalling to more than we are appealing to?

Yeah. Don't get me started.

Appalling... and we tend to go out of our way to perpetuate that perception.

[CAD/JPY]

Hoovie,

I was a youth leader one summer, and I remember my friend and I planning this fantastic outreach idea. We had the play down, and how we would act it all out. People showed up, and it was okay... I mean, we certainly didn't lose the audience, and it was well attended.

But....

Afterwords, an older preacher that I highly respect came up and said words to this effect. "That was good, but remember that there is nothing that can replace the annointing of God. If it was me, I would have gone with annointed preaching"

Without a doubt, I believe if a church seeks truly after the presence of God, they will find it. I'm talking "critical thinking" to find His presence. "God where are you going?" "God is this acceptable?" "God, what do YOU want to happen here?" If the leadership in a church will seek for the deep move of God, that beautiful presence of the Lord each and every service, well, I truly believe they will find it!

I know of churches where you can walk into the sanctuary and immediately feel the presence of God.... when church isn't happening! The sanctuary is empty.
I have seen people who don't even speak the language, attend a church service and all they can describe is the LOVE that they feel. The church I attend now, we repeatedly hear from visitors that they feel something different about this church. I believe it is the presence of God, because we go into every service looking for it, trying to find it, asking God to show up.

To me, the appeal should be outstanding moves of God. The question is this.... ask yourself while everything is "happening" in your service... (the loud, fast songs; the super emotion; the way people are prayed for; the altar call, "sigh" and yes, the offering too; and the preaching)

IS THIS REALLY A MOVE OF GOD??

And when you find that answer, you want to go where HE is going. Churches that critically seek after that, can't help but have appeal! Sure, they will have different styles... but the same SPIRIT! And people that come, will be drawn to that SPIRIT.

People will stay because there are few churches that continually have those deep moves of God's Spirit. I'm talking original moves of God...

Blessings.

[Hoovie]

Thank you all for the responses so far. This will give me some things to think about today.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Thank you all for the responses so far. This will give me some things to think about today.

If it's ok, I'd like to repeat the quote from Erwin McManus and follow it up with an observation:

"What is really needed in the church today is not so much a change in music, although that may need to change.....not so much a change in the decor, although that may need to change. It's not so much a change in how we look, and we may very well need to change how we look.

But the real change that's needed within the church is a change from the posture of spiritual arrogance to one of spiritual humility.....a change from "The church is not here for us, the church is here for the world."

I believe the Pentecostal "style" drives people away. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be intentionally offensive, but it does, in my opinion. I've watched it over and over and over....times ten. So the obvious answer seems to be, to tone it down.

A lot of churches have stripped away the churchy "look" and the "sound." I think when the heart changes it almost always causes an adjustment in style so it's easy to assume that a church that's dressed up in jeans and playing screaming guitars, must have had a heart change. But when people change their style without a heart change it just ends up being the same ole, same ole....legalism dressed up in jeans and playing a rock guitar.