So how again did the Patriot act hurt you personally? Talk about fear mongering. Not one documentated case where this act has abused a innocent American, not one!
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It hurt me because according to the 4th amendment, I still have protection against "unreasonable searches and seizures." As the NSA does business now, my phone call, as a U.S. citizen, from my friend who calls from Ecquador once every two months or so can be wiretapped and eavesdropped on without his name being on a terrorist watch list or for any reason at all. There isn't any smack of a warrant because of criminal activity.
If a person's name is on a terrorist watch list or the government has reason to believe there is criminal behavior, then by all means, go get a warrant and tap the phone. Wiretapping a phone and eavesdropping just because is a violation of the 4th amendment and should be stopped immediately. Agreed?
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It hurt me because according to the 4th amendment, I still have protection against "unreasonable searches and seizures." As the NSA does business now, my phone call, as a U.S. citizen, from my friend who calls from Ecquador once every two months or so can be wiretapped and eavesdropped on without his name being on a terrorist watch list or for any reason at all. There isn't any smack of a warrant because of criminal activity.
If a person's name is on a terrorist watch list or the government has reason to believe there is criminal behavior, then by all means, go get a warrant and tap the phone. Wiretapping a phone and eavesdropping just because is a violation of the 4th amendment and should be stopped immediately. Agreed?
You do realize that for this to happen a judge through the Fisa (sp) Court has to sign off on it.
Again, not one case. I will be making a phone call to India this week, I could care less that anyone listens in through Echelon, I am not a terrorist and have nothing to hide.
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Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
You do realize that for this to happen a judge through the Fiza (sp) Court has to sign off on it.
Again, not one case. I will be making a phone call to India this week, I could care less that anyone listens in through Echelon, I am not a terrorist and have nothing to hide.
Obviously, the reason there isn't a "documented case" is because it's all classified and top secret behind closed doors. How am I supposed to know how many times I've been eavesdropped on when it's highly classified info? Of course there aren't documented cases.
Keith, I'm not a terrorist either and that's not the point. The point is as an American citizen, you and I are either entitled to 4th amendment protections under the Constitution or not. If you want to cede your's, have at it. I'll go ahead and try too keep mine around despite the Bush administration's best attempts.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
Obviously, the reason there isn't a "documented case" is because it's all classified and top secret behind closed doors. How am I supposed to know how many times I've been eavesdropped on when it's highly classified info? Of course there aren't documented cases.
Keith, I'm not a terrorist either and that's not the point. The point is as an American citizen, you and I are either entitled to 4th amendment protections under the Constitution or not. If you want to cede your's, have at it. I'll go ahead and try too keep mine around despite the Bush administration's best attempts.
I guess you missed the part about the FISA Court and a judge agreeing to having the phone tapped. There are legit checks and balances to this act.
__________________
Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
Obviously, the reason there isn't a "documented case" is because it's all classified and top secret behind closed doors. How am I supposed to know how many times I've been eavesdropped on when it's highly classified info? Of course there aren't documented cases.
Keith, I'm not a terrorist either and that's not the point. The point is as an American citizen, you and I are either entitled to 4th amendment protections under the Constitution or not. If you want to cede your's, have at it. I'll go ahead and try too keep mine around despite the Bush administration's best attempts.
To be honest, I think this is where the partisanship gets in the way even after the elections are over. If it had been a liberal Democrat who were doing some of this, many Republicans would have a different reaction to this in my honest opinion. It would signal all kinds of things then. It is the nature of the beast and it keeps us from being consistent and exacting.
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There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Each application for one of these surveillance warrants (called a FISA warrant) is made before an individual judge of the court. Like a grand jury, FISC is not an adversarial court: the federal government is the only party to its proceedings. However, the court may allow third parties to submit briefs as amici curiae. When the Attorney General determines that an emergency exists he may authorize the emergency employment of electronic surveillance before obtaining the necessary authorization from the FISA court, after which the Attorney General or his designee must notify a judge of the court not more than 72 hours after the Attorney General authorizes such surveillance.[2]
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Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
To be honest, I think this is where the partisanship gets in the way even after the elections are over. If it had been a liberal Democrat who were doing some of this, many Republicans would have a different reaction to this in my honest opinion. It would signal all kinds of things then. It is the nature of the beast and it keeps us from being consistent and exacting.
Exactly. Suddenly we have Republicans like Broun of Georgia coming out of the wordwork ready to defend this imagined assault on their freedom, when in fact, they've been a party to butchering the Constitution over the last 5 years.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
I was talking about George's statement that Pres elect Obama wants to end political discourse on the radio.
I don't think he ever said this.
His really good and necessary idea is being blown way out of context.
It would take a "civil failure" of mammoth proportions for what folks are fretting about to happen in America. In the end, this is just partisan paranoia.
Though it is not impossible for America to become a dictatorship, but it is EXTREMELY not likely. There would be massive blood shed and the "dictator to be" would not live to see the end of the civil conflict he/she would start.
I said this before, I'll say it again.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Adding another government entity will surely fix things...
When Hurricane Ike struck, many of the National Guardsman from that area were on deployment.
The same thing happened when the midwest was flooded.
"Another entity" like suggested, makes good sense to me. The key would be keeping the mission of the agency focussed-- that should keep spending from getting too out of hand.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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