How close should a pastor get to the members?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Dimples

Then you have a newcomer like yourself that comes to straighten out everyone.

I don't know where we went wrong, but I tire of your smart alec remarks. Sarcasm stinks and it's covering you with its foul odor.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Dimples

Then you have a newcomer like yourself that comes to straighten out everyone.

Sorry to mess with you fraternity. I didn't know being a newcomer to AFF means you are less qualified to an opinion. I've read many of your posts and comments over the months.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by keith4him

That is the truth, because they never keep to themselves, they will take that and spread it around, like a disease.

Because they are not Pastors? Can't a Pastor friend do the same?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I was speaking about a local church setting where a friendship with pastor goes bad, maybe my wording wasn't the best, but in some cases depending on the situation and saint, they will often share (a human trait) their let down, grievance, unmet expectation with others.

In a local church setting it can be devastating to a congregation. It has taken our church 6 months to deal with this situation, I wasn't involved until I came on the scene. But even 6 months later there still our issues regarding this thing that still pop up every now and then.

The plague is the bitterness that gets spread around, both preachers and saints need inoculation from it.

It's happened that the opposite occured...the Pastor spread rumors about a non-pastor. It's also happened between ministers...Look at Juanita Bynum and Bishop Weeks...If that can happen perhaps ministers should not be married?

It's just a lot of what ifs and frankly that is life. It can happen. It will happn regardless of if it's a Pastor/non-Pastor relationship and the results either way can be devistating. An ex-Pastor friend can spread all sort of trash on the ex-Pastor friend and ruin his reputation in the fellowship and not just the local church

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Eddie compares it to Moses ( in fact, he used this in Keith4him's installation service) - Moses was WITH the people, then he had to go BEFORE the people and eventually he had to go ABOVE the people. I don't have all the verses here, but it's a good analogy. Sometimes you just have to separate yourself, especially as your church gets larger and larger.

Moses did not separate himself relationally from anyone. He separated himself physically to spend time with God alone...something we should all be doing

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I would agree with this completely. This principle not only applies to ministry, but to any organization.

I have several folks who work for me, I spend more time with some of them than others, because there are some that I'm mentoring for higher positions. This is also scriptural, just consider the time Jesus spent with the disciples as opposed to the general masses.

Some of my folks have no higher aspirations than to continue to do what they are already doing.

However, the key is to maintain friendship and relationship without crossing a line where you can't discipline the people under your authority because your friendship and familiarity get in the way.

AND, probably the most important principle is to show no favoritism, in spite of relationships.

The principle you speak of is not about relation but time and physical location. I have close friends that I don't spend 24/7 with but never the less we are friends.

As for the Key, part of the key might be in how you are teaching and growing that church spiritually.

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

You're so right. Jesus did play favorites. I bet He still does. You are obviously so much smarter and spiritual than I am. So he probably likes you better. In fact, you convinced me, I should stop bothering Him, as I am no doubt not even worthy of His time.

Thank you for setting me straight on this matter before it was too late. I was getting very close to letting my guard down. That Jesus is pretty tricky. He is always acting like I am important to Him, and worthy of His time. Good thing that there are people like you around to show me otherwise.

Dear My Own eyes
If you choose to take posts out of context you will continually be in online turmoil.
There were times when Jesus left the crowds to be with the twelve. That has nothing to do with God's love for an individual or God's presence in an individuals life.

[ManOfWord]

I have never been one to play, "what if." I trust people to be people. I trust to be misunderstood at times. I trust to misunderstand at times. I also trust that good communication works wonders and love covers a multitude of sins. I certainly have had my share of betrayals and nothing hurts worse than that. However, I can isolate myself or I can insulate myself. I choose insulation over isolation. It is just a fact of life that relationships go bad sometimes. Absolutely nothing we can do about that. We can try our best and sometimes is still turns out wrong.

However, I'll still take my chances and risk it knowing that the positive fruit is well worth the risk! I try to show affection to every person @ NLC. EVERYBODY gets a hug from pastor John. It is amazing how far that goes for good. It is also contagious. I have NEVER seen it go too far to an inappropriate level.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

As I read your post, In My Eyes, I thought of these verses.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift Unregistered as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted , strengthen thy brethren.


We tend to think of Satans desire to "sift us" as a bad thing, but Jesus implied that this, in fact, has a positive result. Peter was sifted (his denial of Jesus) but it was that betrayal that helped Peter to rid himself of the last remaining vestages of doubt and unbelief. He was converted only after he been "sifted as wheat" by denying the Lord.

The walk you've been on is the same walk I am still on- being sifted of all the "stuff" that has hindered, rather than helped, me in my walk with God. I started out well enough, but, over time, I became weighted down with "stuff" that helped to grind to a halt in my walk with the Lord. Then came the sifting- time to take all of this "stuff', examine it, compare it to what the Bible really teaches. What didn't measure up to THAT Standard (The Word) was laid aside. And I still find things to lay aside. Weights, the Bible calls them. Sins that "doth so easily beset us". Hbr 12:1 Some of these weights are sins that we neglect in our lives. Some are unbiblical religious instruction. And some are the seeds of inadequacy and worthlessness that have been sown into our hearts and minds by people who are suppose to be role models in our lives.

You've been being sifted. All the "junk" you have been fed, all the negtivity, is being sifted out- thats why you are happier in your relationship with the Lord. Thats why many of us see the gradual change in your process. You are being converted.

I think, if we would be honest, we all have denied the Lord in some way. We deny the fact that truth sets men free, choosing rather to believe truth requires rules, rituals and regulation. We deny the Lord by saying OUR plan of Salvation is much more important than God's plan. We deny Him by saying "He is NOT truth- our church, our organization is truth". We deny Him by saying He requires nothing of us, rather than accepting that our very lives are His.

Adam was sifted. He denied the Lord's commands by accepting Satans suggestion. Job was sifted and emptied himself of what can only be described as "self-righteousness". Sifting is a good thing! After our sifting, our faith is strengthened, rather than weakened. We are converted and we can can help others thru the sifting process.

Thank you OA

As Always, you have given me lots to think about!

I came across this prayer a year ago, and it was a small light in encompassing darkness. Many days, it was the only thing that got me through...

Merton’s Prayer

My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me, I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it. Therefore I will trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone. (Thoughts in Solitude, Thomas Merton, 81)

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

Dear My Own eyes
If you choose to take posts out of context you will continually be in online turmoil.
There were times when Jesus left the crowds to be with the twelve. That has nothing to do with God's love for an individual or God's presence in an individuals life.

Dear Mr. Bullwinkle,

I don't think you read more than my initial post to you, so I am going to take that into consideration and go easy on you and ignore the snide comment about "online turmoil".

As others before me have already pointed out, Jesus in the flesh was limited by the flesh, but Jesus in us is not. So for the most part our discussion is somewhat moot.

As for Pastors and their place....I will clue you in on that which most here already know (ad nauseum).... I don't necessarily believe that pastors have a place period, let alone think it's important how close they get to members of their congregation.

I think we are to love one another, and submit one to another, but I do not believe that anyone should be our spiritual authority, except God, and I do not believe I need any mediator between God and I (Except Jesus).

I should stress, that does not mean that I think I know everything, or that I am unteachable. Actually God uses many things (including people!) to teach me things all the time.

But I refuse to fall prey to the attitude that exists in so many pentecostal churches, that either the Holy Ghost is not strong enough to lead/guide/teach me, or that I am not smart/spiritual enough to hear Him.

To bring it back to the original topic, I will summarize by saying I do not believe that there should be a hierarchy of believers in the first place.