Tithing…Is it a command?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, cutting the umbilical cord of tithing will remove the hirelings, and replace it with sincere ministers that would just do the ministry by faith. It would create a new ministry of volunteer elders to teach and facilitate the task of reaching the lost. Most importantly, it will eliminate the bitter taste the world has of the church that all they want is their money....

The Word will always remain true - the "love" of money is the root of all evil." For that person, tithing or not tithing won't change their wicked heart.

[Sean]

This was the official beginning of tithing in Christianity, in the 8th century...
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/w...arlemagne.html


Charlemagne assumed a major responsibility for religious life in his realm. Religious reform became a prime focus of his program. He made royal government the directive force in religious affairs and gave a subordinate role in the service of the king to the clergy. Charlemagne made reluctant pagans, such as the Saxons, receive baptism and imposed a tax of 10 percent of all income, called a tithe, on all Christians to support religious life. In formulating his new religious program Charlemagne relied on guidance from the papacy, especially Pope Hadrian I (772-795). Charlemagne played a major role in enhancing the authority of the papacy in the West.





A different post to read...
THE CHURCH CONTINUED WITH THIS VOLUNTARY APPROACH TO GIVING AND TO THE SUPPORT OF THE CHURCH FOR OVER 300 YEARS.

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor, Constantine, converted to Christianity. He is credited with bringing status to Christianity and with starting the first large church building program. (Note: he is also credited with instituting the first Sunday law in 321; his edict required the people to rest on the “venerable day of the sun.”) Constantine wanted the church to have impressive buildings that would honor his name and his contributions to the church. Consequently, the church groups moved out of homes and into finer buildings and began employing full-time ministers. Therefore, there was a need to support these buildings and these salaried bishops. The New Catholic Encyclopedia summarizes the situation:

“The early Christian church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated” by Christ’s death. However, as the church’s material needs grew because of its vast building program and paying of bishops, it adopted the pre-cross, Ceremonial Law-method of support, tithing. Therefore, “the Council of Macon in 585, ordered the payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply.”

From the sixth century forward, tithing was adopted by the Catholic Church and later accepted into many protestant churches from the 1500’s onward.

The Encyclopedia Brittanica notes: “Despite serious resistance, tithing became obligatory as Christianity spread across Europe….It was enjoined by ecclesiastical law from the sixth century….” In the 14th century, Pope Gregory VII, outlawed …lay ownership of tithes.” In other words, Pope Gregory VII, concluded that only paid clergy could receive and direct the use of tithe, not lay, unpaid, Christians. (Note: A similar position is taken by E. G. White when she states that the tithe is to be used for ministers, only. Testimonies, Vol. 9, 248-249. This position is contrary to Deut. 14, which teaches that tithe was, among other things, to be used for strangers (refugees), orphans, and widows.) The following statement is made by the Archdiocese of St. Louis: “TITHING IS ABSOLUTELY STILL NECESSARY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TODAY. (See their: Office of Stewardship and Development statement on the www.)

In 765, the Carolingian King Pepin III (the Short) sent a letter to all bishops making the payment of tithe by each individual to his parish church a legal obligation. Also, everyone was forced to tithe 800 years after Christ when Charlemagne founded the Holy Roman Empire, blending church and state and making tithing a state law.



And folks...weve been it teaching ever since....guess what, we have NOT come completely out of the Catholic church and WE ARE STILL IN THE REFORMATION.

[anon5]

Originally Posted by Sean

This was the official beginning of tithing in Christianity, in the 8th century...
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/w...arlemagne.html


Charlemagne assumed a major responsibility for religious life in his realm. Religious reform became a prime focus of his program. He made royal government the directive force in religious affairs and gave a subordinate role in the service of the king to the clergy. Charlemagne made reluctant pagans, such as the Saxons, receive baptism and imposed a tax of 10 percent of all income, called a tithe, on all Christians to support religious life. In formulating his new religious program Charlemagne relied on guidance from the papacy, especially Pope Hadrian I (772-795). Charlemagne played a major role in enhancing the authority of the papacy in the West.





A different post to read...
THE CHURCH CONTINUED WITH THIS VOLUNTARY APPROACH TO GIVING AND TO THE SUPPORT OF THE CHURCH FOR OVER 300 YEARS.

In the fourth century, the Roman Emperor, Constantine, converted to Christianity. He is credited with bringing status to Christianity and with starting the first large church building program. (Note: he is also credited with instituting the first Sunday law in 321; his edict required the people to rest on the “venerable day of the sun.”) Constantine wanted the church to have impressive buildings that would honor his name and his contributions to the church. Consequently, the church groups moved out of homes and into finer buildings and began employing full-time ministers. Therefore, there was a need to support these buildings and these salaried bishops. The New Catholic Encyclopedia summarizes the situation:

“The early Christian church had no tithing system. The tithes of the Old Testament were regarded as abrogated” by Christ’s death. However, as the church’s material needs grew because of its vast building program and paying of bishops, it adopted the pre-cross, Ceremonial Law-method of support, tithing. Therefore, “the Council of Macon in 585, ordered the payment of tithes and threatened excommunication to those who refused to comply.”

From the sixth century forward, tithing was adopted by the Catholic Church and later accepted into many protestant churches from the 1500’s onward.

The Encyclopedia Brittanica notes: “Despite serious resistance, tithing became obligatory as Christianity spread across Europe….It was enjoined by ecclesiastical law from the sixth century….” In the 14th century, Pope Gregory VII, outlawed …lay ownership of tithes.” In other words, Pope Gregory VII, concluded that only paid clergy could receive and direct the use of tithe, not lay, unpaid, Christians. (Note: A similar position is taken by E. G. White when she states that the tithe is to be used for ministers, only. Testimonies, Vol. 9, 248-249. This position is contrary to Deut. 14, which teaches that tithe was, among other things, to be used for strangers (refugees), orphans, and widows.) The following statement is made by the Archdiocese of St. Louis: “TITHING IS ABSOLUTELY STILL NECESSARY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TODAY. (See their: Office of Stewardship and Development statement on the www.)

In 765, the Carolingian King Pepin III (the Short) sent a letter to all bishops making the payment of tithe by each individual to his parish church a legal obligation. Also, everyone was forced to tithe 800 years after Christ when Charlemagne founded the Holy Roman Empire, blending church and state and making tithing a state law.



And folks...weve been it teaching ever since....guess what, we have NOT come completely out of the Catholic church and WE ARE STILL IN THE REFORMATION.

That is one of the things that drew me to the Church of Jesus Christ and latter day saints. They are cautious about the interpretation of the bible because it was done by catholics, and there is nothing even remotely catholic about the book of Mormon. Say what else you want about it, but that's definitely a plus.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by anon5

That is one of the things that drew me to the Church of Jesus Christ and latter day saints. They are cautious about the interpretation of the bible because it was done by catholics, and there is nothing even remotely catholic about the book of Mormon. Say what else you want about it, but that's definitely a plus.

Bro. the Mormons teach tithing also.......


Well bro., the Catholics did not give us our(received text) KJV Bible, they fought against it tooth and nail. It is put together from over 5000 manuscripts from nearly every language of the world. Mostly Greek though.

All(every single one) of the other versions are from either Catholic manuscripts or Alexandrian manuscripts or a combination of the two groups.

It is important to know that. There is much incorrect speculation about our Bible because of lack of understanding of the matter.

[anon5]

Originally Posted by Sean

Bro. the Mormons teach tithing also.......


Well bro., the Catholics did not give us our(received text) KJV Bible, they fought against it tooth and nail. It is put together from over 5000 manuscripts from nearly every language of the world. Mostly Greek though.

All(every single one) of the other versions are from either Catholic manuscripts or Alexandrian manuscripts or a combination of the two groups.

It is important to know that. There is much incorrect speculation about our Bible because of lack of understanding of the matter.

The catholic church around that time had pretty much all the power; no competition to speak of. Exactly WHO did they have to fight tooth and toenail with?

It was my understanding that king james, who was catholic, send many interpreter to that area, who then went through the documents, deciding what to include, and translated the books. I also understand that some of the wording was changed and some books, like the book of Mary, was kept out altogether
Who was the king who turned protestant so he could divorce his wife?

[Lafon]

WHY was tithing instituted as an integral element of the Law, that is, what PURPOSE, or NEED was it designed to address? Does that SAME "purpose" or "need" exist under the terms of God's NEW covenant?

I think when one determines the proper answer to these questions they will discover why tithing is NO longer required. "Giving" as one is able to do so? Absolutely! (And that "giving" need not necessarily always be in the form of monies either, but could include such things as clothing, shelter, food, etc).

[Sean]

Originally Posted by anon5

The catholic church around that time had pretty much all the power; no competition to speak of. Exactly WHO did they have to fight tooth and toenail with?

The REFORMERS...they were started by men like Martin Luther, John Hus and such...they became the official PROTEST-ANTS, or commonly know as Protestants. They abandoned the Catholic manuscripts and collected the textus receptus(received text, over 2000 manuscripts at the time), and created the various received text Bibles, leading up to the creation of the KJV Bible(received text Bible)


It was my understanding that king james, who was catholic, (He was a protestant, you have been taught wrong).



send many interpreter to that area, who then went through the documents, deciding what to include, and translated the books. I also understand that some of the wording was changed and some books, like the book of Mary, was kept out altogether
Who was the king who turned protestant so he could divorce his wife?... Henry 8th

We did a recent thread on KJV verses the other versions, please read through this debate and you will get much clarification. I love this topic, but this one is about tithing.

Heres the link...http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=46232

[anon5]

Back on topic: The bottom line with me and tithing is even if the preacher preached against it and ordered me not to do it I still would tithe. I don't know the true motivations of most preachers on the subject, but I do know that ANYONE who tithes on a regular basis and has experienced the bizarre effects of it, are completely sold in the subject and don't see it as extortion at all.
Extortion hurts people and ultimately leaves them with less, not more. Regardless of the preachers motivations, the tither is still left with more.
When it comes to the preacher in question, the best way to find out WHY he wants you to tithe is to find out whether or not HE tithes. That little tidbit of info will tell alot.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by anon5

Back on topic: The bottom line with me and tithing is even if the preacher preached against it and ordered me not to do it I still would tithe. I don't know the true motivations of most preachers on the subject, but I do know that ANYONE who tithes on a regular basis and has experienced the bizarre effects of it, are completely sold in the subject and don't see it as extortion at all.
Extortion hurts people and ultimately leaves them with less, not more. Regardless of the preachers motivations, the tither is still left with more.
When it comes to the preacher in question, the best way to find out WHY he wants you to tithe is to find out whether or not HE tithes. That little tidbit of info will tell alot.

Ummmmmm..... I can find you horror stories of required tithing. Will you just toss those aside?

I can find many that will say the same thing about freewill giving that you just said about tithing... who is right I wonder? Who has selective seeing?

[anon5]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Ummmmmm..... I can find you horror stories of required tithing. Will you just toss those aside?

I can find many that will say the same thing about freewill giving that you just said about tithing... who is right I wonder? Who has selective seeing?

You lost me on this. I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean like oily preachers conning old ladies out of their life savings, then that doesn't constitute paying tithes. God described paying tithes as paying ten percent of your increase. He put ten percent for a reason. It's doable for everyone. No one gets sent to the poorhouse because of the low percentage, and it's fair.
If you question whether or not some preacher should get it fine. Give ten percentbto your local dog pound if you wish. The financial blessings from doing that will STILL come.