For those that left the UPC... - Page 33

seekerman · #**321** 05-30-2010, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Another modification I have seen is people add the words in Acts 2:37 What must we do "to be saved". It doesn't say that.

Yep, heard that many times too. While I guess I've heard Acts 2:37-39 quoted a gazillion times, I very seldom heard the reference to the verse where an individual asked that very question.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

shag · #**322** 05-30-2010, 07:00 AM

1 Cor. 1:21 ....... it was God's pleasure, by so foolish a thing as preaching, to give salvation to those who had faith in him.

Brad Murphy · #**323** 05-30-2010, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

How do we receive this gift is what I think they were wondering. Not how do we get to heaven.

Then on the back end of that, I always assumed that Acts 2:39 had the words, "as evidenced by speaking in tongues"... and hmmmm, it's not in there.

shag · #**324** 05-30-2010, 08:01 AM

Acts 2:40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."

I dont believe their thoughts of "what must we do" was really about heaven, but rather after they had found out from Peter what had taken place fullfilling scripture of crucifying the Messiah, they wanted to know what they should do about it.

They were in a sense continuing what Jesus had started....in which was drawing the line in the sand between that wicked generation that went on to reject and crucify the Messiah, and those that chose to believe on Him & separate themselves and come into the Kingdom. Those that continued in rejecting Him, later received the judgement that was prophesied.

Falla39 · #**325** 05-30-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekerman

Yep, heard that many times too. While I guess I've heard Acts 2:37-39 quoted a gazillion times, I very seldom heard the reference to the verse where an individual asked that very question.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Rom.10:13-15 (Amplified Bible)

13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved.

14 But how are people to call upon Him Whom they have not believed [in Whom they have no faith, on Whom they have no reliance]? And how are they to believe in Him [adhere to, trust in, and rely upon Him] of Whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?

15 And how can men [be expected to] preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who bring glad tidings! [How welcome is the coming of those who preach the good news of His good things!

They must hear about Jesus, (the gospel) and then call upon him in faith believing. Obey the gospel and be saved!

noeticknight · #**326** 05-30-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39

To debate and argue just for the sake of doing so, never helps, in my estimation.

Falla39

But Falla, aren't you "arguing" and "debating" about the merits of argument and debate?

noeticknight · #**327** 05-30-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

In my opinion, we need to be careful here not to get too dogmatic or to develop a doctrine that we use to designate heaven or hell as a destination.

I'll toast to that!!

jfrog · #**328** 05-30-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Our Messiah came and we missed Him?
What do we do now so we don't miss out on His kingdom?

or

So the Messiah has come and been exalted to the right hand of the Father and has poured out His Spirit as He promised --how do we also receive that Promise of the Father?

Either way it doesn't say receiving the Holy Ghost is essential. (Well, it does say it is promised if we repent and are baptized... So if we never receive the Holy Ghost then maybe we are doing something wrong?)

Godsdrummer · #**329** 05-30-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falla39

Quote:

Then you may not receive the Holy Ghost! Don't ask, don't seek, and you
just may not find!

I was aways taught not to tell someone they did or did not get the holy ghost but to let them claim it. This included if I was praising with them and heard them speak in tongues.

Quote:

Not trying to be argumentive, just speaking the truth in love, if you can
receive it! If you have never spoken in tongues as the Spirit gave the utter-
ance, biblically you have NOT received the Acts 2 experience I received 52 yrs. ago!

Sister that is like a pastors wife told my wife years ago, that if someone did not accept the standards of holiness within a certain period of time they did not get the same holy ghost that she did.

Quote:

It's more real today than it was when I first received it. My understanding is more clear
because of growing up in Him who is the Head of all principality and power, etc....! Reading
and applying His Word. Asking, Seeking, Knocking and finding more and more about Him. It
has SO enriched my life and those of my family. Blessings so abundant!

As it should become more real every day and if someone has the holy ghost they will speak with tongues, some may have to grow into it just as you have grown into a deeper walk with God. I have seen this many times my wife being one of those. She came to church on Easter Sunday morning 1977 felt something that brought her back that night. After the message an alter call was made where she came and gave her heart to God. My argument is God gave her his spirit then, (as it is a gift) she left a changed person with new life within. Just as with baptism when we are save we must go on into deeper relationship with God and grow. We must obey his word and be baptized. Tongues will come. Where teaching against tongues will cause someone to steer away from it, teaching tongues in its proper place will cause one to seek deeper places in God. As for my wife, later that same week she was in her bedroom praying and reading her bible when she bagan to speak in tongues.

Now we say she was not receive Gods spirit on Sunday because she did not speak in tongues. She did not get saved until later that week when she spike in tongues. I say she recieved Gods spirit on Sunday and went on and recieved deeper relationship when in prayer she began to speak in tongues.

Falla39

Remember the outpouring in the early 19th century was not because the seekers were looking for the way to be saved. They were saved Christians looking for deeper power with God. They were seeking and they received. Jesus did not tell the Apostles to go to the upper room to be saved he told them to wait till they got power from on high.

Because of the way we teach most of us recieve this deeper power when we get save because we stay at the alter till we speak in tongues. This does not mean others do not get God spirit when they get saved. We just get a head start.

Tongues is a sign that will follow every one that has the spirit of God just as Jesus tells his diciples in Mark.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

We don't teach you not saved or have the spirit of God if you don't handle snakes do we? Or you don't have the spirit if you lay your hands on the sick and they don't recover?

missourimary · #**330** 05-30-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Remember the outpouring in the early 19th century was not because the seekers were looking for the way to be saved. They were saved Christians looking for deeper power with God. They were seeking and they received. Jesus did not tell the Apostles to go to the upper room to be saved he told them to wait till they got power from on high.

Because of the way we teach most of us recieve this deeper power when we get save because we stay at the alter till we speak in tongues. This does not mean others do not get God spirit when they get saved. We just get a head start.

Tongues is a sign that will follow every one that has the spirit of God just as Jesus tells his diciples in Mark.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

We don't teach you not saved or have the spirit of God if you don't handle snakes do we? Or you don't have the spirit if you lay your hands on the sick and they don't recover?

Good points. As to the last though... maybe you're missing something by not having snakes in service?

I read part of a book by an author that studied snake handlers once. He said the experience was very spiritual. (Yes, he did try it.) Ick. Bring a snake, you'll hear me scream clear into the next county!