On a practical level how does one go about "...GET THE VICTORY OVER IT THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST!"?
Hi Mizpeh,
Great question. I'd like to start off with some verses:
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Cor 9:27)
This is but a sampling to convey the general idea of NT teaching: we are not to be in subjection to the affections and lusts of our flesh, but rather, these should be in subjection to the will of the Spirit which resides in us.
If one finds themselves in subjection- or outright bondage- to the will of the flesh, then the will of the flesh must be weakened and crucified, and the will of the Spirit must be allowed to grow stronger in us. This can only be accomplished through prayer and fasting. That does not mean we cannot receive immediate "deliverance" at the altar, whereby the grip of the flesh is broken. But after this, the will of the flesh must be kept in subjection, and this takes place through prayer and fasting. Not simply prayer alone, but prayer and fasting. Not a one-time fast, but as a regular habit in the life of the believer.
Thank God there is real hope for those (believers and non-believers alike) who are at this moment bound by sin and the flesh. The power of Jesus' name is greater than any chain by which Satan may have them bound. But we must also allow the process of sanctification to begin and continue in us. Sanctification is the process whereby the Holy Ghost conforms us to the image of Jesus Christ.
For each believer, there are some Goliaths which are slain in us immediately upon infilling, but there may be others which are slain over time. I've seen alcoholics who- after infilling- never touched another drop ever. They had no desire whatsoever to return to the bottle. Then I've seen some who were initially delivered, but the desire remained in such a way that they had to practice exactly what I refer to above: a pattern of prayer and fasting.
No one has answered this question. Dave, can you tackle it?
In the Song of Songs, didn't the lovers fantasize about each other prior to their marriage? If so... is this book depicting grevious sin? Or are we seeing an example of normal human interest and a celebration of this most private aspect of our nature?
Unfortunately, I'm out of time for now, so I'll have to revisit this hopefully later this evening.
Great question. I'd like to start off with some verses:
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Cor 9:27)
This is but a sampling to convey the general idea of NT teaching: we are not to be in subjection to the affections and lusts of our flesh, but rather, these should be in subjection to the will of the Spirit which resides in us.
If one finds themselves in subjection- or outright bondage- to the will of the flesh, then the will of the flesh must be weakened and crucified, and the will of the Spirit must be allowed to grow stronger in us. This can only be accomplished through prayer and fasting. That does not mean we cannot receive immediate "deliverance" at the altar, whereby the grip of the flesh is broken. But after this, the will of the flesh must be kept in subjection, and this takes place through prayer and fasting. Not simply prayer alone, but prayer and fasting. Not a one-time fast, but as a regular habit in the life of the believer.
Thank God there is real hope for those (believers and non-believers alike) who are at this moment bound by sin and the flesh. The power of Jesus' name is greater than any chain by which Satan may have them bound. But we must also allow the process of sanctification to begin and continue in us. Sanctification is the process whereby the Holy Ghost conforms us to the image of Jesus Christ.
For each believer, there are some Goliaths which are slain in us immediately upon infilling, but there may be others which are slain over time. I've seen alcoholics who- after infilling- never touched another drop ever. They had no desire whatsoever to return to the bottle. Then I've seen some who were initially delivered, but the desire remained in such a way that they had to practice exactly what I refer to above: a pattern of prayer and fasting.
I keep hearing "pray pray pray" and "fast fast fast" but have NEVER had luck overcoming a bad habit by doing either. In fact with the issue being discussed I would think that doing both specifically to fight an "urge" would not help, but hurt since your not replacing the urge but trying to fight it head on. The best thing to do (and this goes for other things such as smoking) is to find something ELSE to do. "Whatever your hands find to do" as the saying goes. Build a boat in your basement like Jethro Gibbs. Work out -a lot! Find something to do that occupies your time! Idol hands truly is the devils work shop and simply closing your eyes, while your hands and forehead are sweating, and praying as the sole means of fighting an urge will do little to curb anything.
I keep hearing "pray pray pray" and "fast fast fast" but have NEVER had luck overcoming a bad habit by doing either. In fact with the issue being discussed I would think that doing both specifically to fight an "urge" would not help, but hurt since your not replacing the urge but trying to fight it head on. The best thing to do (and this goes for other things such as smoking) is to find something ELSE to do. "Whatever your hands find to do" as the saying goes. Build a boat in your basement like Jethro Gibbs. Work out -a lot! Find something to do that occupies your time! Idol hands truly is the devils work shop and simply closing your eyes, while your hands and forehead are sweating, and praying as the sole means of fighting an urge will do little to curb anything.
I agree and I also think that one of the biggest helps with this issue or any other issue is accountability.
I agree and I also think that one of the biggest helps with this issue or any other issue is accountability.
Absolutely.
Now I am not saying that we shouldn't "pray pray pray" and "fast fast fast", in fact I believe we ALL have some manner of "thorn in our sides" to HAVE something to continually pray about, but I just object to the idea that prayer alone will cure a deeply embedded desire or habit -other than the occasional miraculous victory which does occasionally take place.
Great question. I'd like to start off with some verses:
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Cor 6:12)
"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Rom 6:16)
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Cor 9:27)
This is but a sampling to convey the general idea of NT teaching: we are not to be in subjection to the affections and lusts of our flesh, but rather, these should be in subjection to the will of the Spirit which resides in us.
If one finds themselves in subjection- or outright bondage- to the will of the flesh, then the will of the flesh must be weakened and crucified, and the will of the Spirit must be allowed to grow stronger in us. This can only be accomplished through prayer and fasting. That does not mean we cannot receive immediate "deliverance" at the altar, whereby the grip of the flesh is broken. But after this, the will of the flesh must be kept in subjection, and this takes place through prayer and fasting. Not simply prayer alone, but prayer and fasting. Not a one-time fast, but as a regular habit in the life of the believer.
Thank God there is real hope for those (believers and non-believers alike) who are at this moment bound by sin and the flesh. The power of Jesus' name is greater than any chain by which Satan may have them bound. But we must also allow the process of sanctification to begin and continue in us. Sanctification is the process whereby the Holy Ghost conforms us to the image of Jesus Christ.
For each believer, there are some Goliaths which are slain in us immediately upon infilling, but there may be others which are slain over time. I've seen alcoholics who- after infilling- never touched another drop ever. They had no desire whatsoever to return to the bottle. Then I've seen some who were initially delivered, but the desire remained in such a way that they had to practice exactly what I refer to above: a pattern of prayer and fasting.
Amen. I completely agree with you. If you have a man who's lusting after women certainly this chain can be broken by prayer and fasting. We agree here.
But I don't see normal interest, thoughts, or even a fantasy as being the same as a "lust of the flesh". Some people think that any normal human feeling in the sexual arena that isn't towards one's spouse is inherently evil. It's only evil if one allows lust (the actual desire to have one who isn't one's wife) to take root. As with the Song of Solomon, two unmarried individuals who love one another will think about each other night and day. Long for the day that they can touch. They imagine what it will be like. Many may see a man or woman they feel attracted to and have a "fantasy", but they aren't trying to score their phone number and would never pursue the individual for pleasures. I just see a difference here. Not everything about us as human beings is evil or sinful. Some things are just a part of being a human being. You'd have me think that a single person must supress all sexual feelings and be essentially asexual in thought and deed. I don't see that as being required of them. As long as they do not descend into lust (actually desiring to sin and pursuing another for the purpose of sin) or outright fornication or adultery I don't see a "sin" here. Sin, in any form is a Heaven or Hell issue. It's not just a "problem" to be overcome. If it is a sin any single man or woman with the slightest sexual urgings, interests, fantasies, or needs is spirituall dead where they stand and are Hell bound. Maybe you see sin as something not as deadly... I don't. I see sin so seriously that I've come to the conclusion that some things are not "sins"... else most posting on this forum and who attend most of our churches are spiritually dead where they're standing.
Among the supposed "sins" our "religion" teaches us are... cut hair, pants on women, tobaco, alcohol, and yes... some even count television a sin. I know a man who told me National Geographic magazine was pornography because it occasionally had pictures of tribal women wearing no tops. Get real... obviously bone necklaces and nose rings do something for this man... but it does nothing for me. I simply saw them as... tribal people. Wow. Get that.
The Song of Solomon and much of the OT tells us so much about what God feels about human sexuality. We often pigeon hole God into thinking like a Western European Puritan. He doesn’t think that way. We see two unmarried individuals in love having intimate fantasies about one another prior to marriage in the Song of Solomon. Would they act on these fantasies? NO! Such would be sin against God. But do they desire one another? YES. No sin here. Human desire is normal and healthy.
Good post Chris. As I have followed this thread the question occurred to me, so would some tell an engaged couple that ANY thoughts of what the wedding night will be like before it arrives is "lust" and therefor "adultery"? Have there ever been an engaged couple (other then the marriage of young children in some countries) who have not had some pretty intense imaginations before hand? I do not believe it is possible and even if it was, I do not believe it is even necessary but rather to be savored and even enjoyed.
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