I have Left the UPC Church

[Digging4Truth]

Whew...

I was almost decapitated by flying insinuations.

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

That the saint is quite capable of living for God and that leadership isn't on a "higher" level than the saint. They are equals and are to be submitted one to another. This doesn't take away the activity of the 5 fold at all -- after all the 5 fold are to bring maturity to the saint. It allows the saint to be able to realize their own potential in God.

The Five fold is designed to equip and train others to replace them.

Who will those that replace them be? The "saints". They are equal, they just need to be trained by those that have gone before them. To teach them... not in the "I'm better than you" sense, but in "this is what I've learned" sense.

It's not a corporation. It's an organism, a body.

Cells produce cells to replace themselves.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

and restating the obvious will do what ... I think Mich has got the message ...

Yes but Daniel things aren't always what they seem.Think outside the box.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I agree. How do you find this lacking in our churches today? Do you think the ministry is not bringing saints to maturity and in why not?

In my experiences... not often. I've seen saints have to ask to go on vacation, what color car to drive, whether or not they should find a job. I've seen people who can't stay away from their home church for more than a service or two and they are out watching porn and sinning...

IMO, they come to church are spoon fed doctrine/theology (which they accept without question) and become fat and lazy, spiritually. They aren't encouraged to get out and do the things of God. It is the pastors job to everything from visit the sick to bring food to those who are poor and hungry -- or they have to get permission first. I could go on and on but won't. No, I don't believe that this is the rule but neither is it the exception.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Oh you mean just here on the internet right? Not real fellowship.Well that cyber hug is going do her alot of good going along with cyber food and cyber coffee huh? Sorry but I disagree with you.I doubt AFF is set up to be a substitute
for church.

Michlow attends church in her living room, with her husband. Too small of a fellowship for you? Maybe she can decide that for herself.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Sorry but you read too much into a two liner.Its not about you remember?

I didn't say it was... thanks for the jab though... needed that reminder...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Yes but Daniel things aren't always what they seem.Think outside the box.

Re-hashing this doesn't help ... only exacerbates .... Praying for and ENCOURAGING Mich is what we can do best ... not seeking to "fix" her.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Oh you mean just here on the internet right? Not real fellowship.Well that cyber hug is going do her alot of good going along with cyber food and cyber coffee huh? Sorry but I disagree with you.I doubt AFF is set up to be a substitute
for church.

*shrug* Different strokes and all that...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Michlow attends church in her living room, with her husband. Too small of a fellowship for you? Maybe she can decide that for herself.

Ding ... ding ... ding ... we have a winner!!!!

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Ding ... ding ... ding ... we have a winner!!!!

AND WHAT DOES HE WIN, DAN!!!!