New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance - Page 32

LUKE2447 · #**311** 01-23-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

There is only one God, one Holy Spirit.
God as Holy Spirit is found active way back in Genesis chapter one where He hovered like a dove over the fluid face of the earth, bringing light to the darkness and bringing order out of chaos.
He has worked in and upon and through humans all through the history of man.
Of course, the same Holy Ghost who empowered Elizabeth, Zecharias, John the Baptist, Simeon, and Anna in the NT and the prophets of the Old Testament is the same Holy Ghost who empowers us today. It's just that in the Old Testament the gift of tongues was not manifested and was therefore not associated with experiences of the Holy Spirit.

Sorry Sam but there is a total different interaction now than then. It is not just about tongues but the law is written on the heart. That clearly shows a total different relationship than through simply the letter. God came in the flesh so that he could dwell in us THROUGH Christ. As he is the veil of God in us so that he can minister to us the way he does now.

KWSS1976 · #**312** 01-23-2009, 01:42 PM

Sam I can always depend on ya to make light of the situation. This is what I am trying to say I know there is one god and one holyghost but some people make it out that the holyghost elizabeth and the rest had in the old testament was not the same holyghost in acts.

LUKE2447 · #**313** 01-23-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Sam I can always depend on ya to make light of the situation. This is what I am trying to say I know there is one god and one holyghost but some people make it out that the holyghost elizabeth and the rest had in the old testament was not the same holyghost in acts.

I am confused by your reference to one God and one HS. God's interaction with man and how he did that before Christ's atonement and after doesn't make a different person but a greated depth of relationship. God is one and now as Jesus prayed....

."...that they may be one as we are one, thou in me and I in thee." This is the oneness with God we now can experience through Christ. Same God just better realization of him in our lives.

deltaguitar · #**314** 01-23-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

THe OT saints where declared righteous by the complete repsonse to the message available to them at the time and that was faith in the future coming of the Messiah and daily seeking and responding to God. They also walked by faith daily seeking God. The only difference now is we receive the fullfillment of the promise which is a different experience in many regards but still the same in the basics. Live by faith!

So, it was enough for the old testament saints to live by faith but now faith isn't enough and we have to be water baptized and holy spirit baptized?

The part in bold actually makes sense and is exactly how it works for us today. Amazing, faith in the old testament and faith in the new.

LUKE2447 · #**315** 01-23-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

So, it was enough for the old testament saints to live by faith but now faith isn't enough and we have to be water baptized and holy spirit baptized?

The part in bold actually makes sense and is exactly how it works for us today. Amazing, faith in the old testament and faith in the new.

Yes, but being brought into covenant is different than the old in that it is still by faith but the context is a little different. Faith is a proper response to God which depends on the context. We realize christ through repentance, baptism and infilling of the HS which all is through faith. We live afterward a life of faith. It in part is the same but on a different level. As the saints of old did not experience what we do today.

Both walks are realized by faith but the actuality of what happens is different. Context of faith!

shawndell · #**316** 01-23-2009, 04:44 PM

Thats why God forbids us humans to judge one another because if it was left up to us we would be sending each other to hell all the time.Much love to you in Jesus.

shawndell · #**317** 01-23-2009, 04:57 PM

Did the thief on the cross have the holy ghost,or was he baptized? Jesus said this day you shall be with me in paradise.Thank God he knows where we are at in our spiritial development.Jesus doesnt starve the babies because they might be slow in thier development.I hope I dont sound snotty. I dont mean to be.I believe in repentance,baptizem in Jesus name and the infilling of the holyghost,but I think when the church is pregnant with souls we are responsible to care for them,even the slow ones.

Sam · #**318** 01-23-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I am confused by your reference to one God and one HS. ....

In my opinion
God is the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is God.
There is one God and one Holy Spirit.
They are not two separate spirits.
They are the same Spirit.
In Acts 5:3 Peter told Ananias that he had lied to the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 5:4 Peter told Ananias that he had lied to God.
He did not mean that Ananias had lied to two separate spirits
but that in lying to the Holy Spirit he was lying to God
and in lying to God he was lying to the Holy Spirit.
Some times He is referred to by people as "God the Holy Ghost" and some times as "God the Father."

Over 50 years ago, I asked Jesus Christ to come into my life. I believe He did. He came in as the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost. Now, I can say Jesus lives in my heart, or I can say God lives in my heart, or I can say the Holy Spirit lives in my heart. I can use those terms interchangeably. I do not believe that God lives in my heart as three spirits but as one. He is God and He is the Holy Spirit and His name is Jesus.

All I was saying was that God moved in, upon, and through people in the Old Testament just like He does in the New Testament. However, under the Old Testament we do not read about any manifestation of "speaking with tongues/languages" like we do some times when God moves in, upon, and through people in this New Testament/Covenant.

Sam · #**319** 01-23-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Nobody was "born" of the Spirit before Pentecost.

Then to whom was Jesus referring when He said, "We speak that we do know and we testify that we have seen" (John 3:11) when He spoke about the new birth?

Wasn't Jesus saying, "We know about people who have been born again and we've seen people who have been born again"?

And, by the way, if we've been born as humans we've been born of water.
The human birth or birth of water isn't enough. We must be reborn or born again or born of the Spirit.

Sam · #**320** 01-23-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Ok so there must be 2 versions of the holyghost/spirit one version in the old testament and then one in the new testament.

In the Old Testament, people were filled with the Spirit (Exodus 35:31); or full of the Spirit (Deut. 34:9); the Holy Spirit was given (Numbers 11:25); the Holy rested upon people (Numbers 11:26); the Holy Spirit was put upon them (Numbers 11:29);the Holy Spirit clothed Himself with people (Judges 6:34); the Holy Spirit came upon people (1 Samuel 10:6, 10); and the Holy Spirit was in people (1 Peter 1:11) but was not compared to or described as a baptism/immersion/soaking/overwhelming. John the Baptist told those people back then that just as he (John) was baptizing with/in water, Someone coming after him would baptize them with/in the Holy Spirit. Those folks who were familiar with the Scriptures were familiar with the Spirit's working in, upon, with, and through people in the past but they were unfamiliar with an experience of a baptism in/with the Spirit.