Pastoral authority

[ManOfWord]

I do not think it is the pastor's "job" to prune the church. By "prune" I mean preach people out of it. Most know how to do that. That is tantamount to taking the sword to them. The pastor's "job" is serve the people. If the pastor would love unconditionally, I think he would be amazed at how many times these people come around. Of course, not all will come around as there are different visions for a church. However, I believe that the pastor is the one to whom the Lord will grant the vision. If he leads with a "towel" most will follow. If none will follow, then it is probably time to move on and find the place that his vision matches.

[Carpenter]

Well, now I am confused, just who now is the shepherd? Is it the pastor or the Lord?

I wonder if sometimes the pastor gets into a tug of war with the Lord for the staff and the pruning shears??? I am the Shepherd, NO I am the Shepherd, Ok, then Give me the shears, NO, I am the gardner, you plant, you water, I give the increase, Ok, then I'll take the sheep....

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Kutless

quoting from a recent perspective........."Its absolutely necessary for a pruning process to take place in order for a church to grow. Ithe first 8 verses of John 15, Jesus talk about fruit, more fruit, and much fruit. That process is the purging process, whereby God gets rid of the old so the new growth can come. Its very important that pastors and leaders understand what is taking place. A pastor or leader can intervene and actually stop this process because of his God-given authority. He may do this by justifying, by allowing things to go on that shouldn't and actually block God"


I'm really not sure what to think of this. The article is entitled "Pruning to bring forth much Fruit"

Any comments?

I think 'pruning' is an individual thing and not a collective thing. For decades, every time there is a church split, or a mass exodus from any assemby, someone comes along and preaches the sermon that makes all Pastor's who are in this situation feel righteous and justified:

God is just purging your church of fruitless baggage so that He can bless the faithful few who are left.

If they actually preached what God intended then they would preach on how the Pastor dropped the ball, got too big for his britches, and God is trying to teach the Pastor an invaluable lesson in humility and doing it God's way instead of their own way.

Enough said.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well, now I am confused, just who now is the shepherd? Is it the pastor or the Lord?

I wonder if sometimes the pastor gets into a tug of war with the Lord for the staff and the pruning shears??? I am the Shepherd, NO I am the Shepherd, Ok, then Give me the shears, NO, I am the gardner, you plant, you water, I give the increase, Ok, then I'll take the sheep....

He is the good sheperd. The cult of the personality is one of the biggest obstacles the church is facing today.