Hillary nearly collapses at Sep. 11th ceremony

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If you care, be sure to find out if the Republicans are obstructing the creation of market exchanges and the expansion of Medicare in your state. If they are.... write them about how disgusted you are that they'd hang sick people out to dry just to make the ACA look bad. Then please vote against the monsters.

Let's be honest about the expansion and reason for obamacare looking bad.

It looks bad because it is bad. Period. It doesn't need any help to make it appear so.

The GOP blocked the expansion of Medicaid, and rightfully so. It was a fiscally irresponsible and bad deal. obama wants Congress to forcefully expand Medicaid to states which don't want to be overburdened with the cost. obama claims it will be 100% funded by the government...until 2020, when states will begin to take on 10% of the cost. No word on how much that will rise after 2020. Even if it doesn't rise beyond 10%, could you imagine states like Texas, Florida and California having to cover 10% of the cost? Even here in Arizona it would be a disaster.

The GOP counters by saying this should be given to states as block grants, for individual states to use as needed. The government's one size fits all expansion will not work.

Also, a bit of honesty is needed here. The reason obamacare is a bad deal is not because the GOP blocked this bad deal. The reason insurance companies have pulled out of obamacare is not because the GOP blocked Medicaid expansion. The reason medical device manufacturers have gone out of business is not because the GOP blocked this bad deal.

It is dishonest, political hackery to claim this.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I pray she recovers.

We've had Presidents with far greater problems than pneumonia. And yes, I've seen people her age become weak and nearly fall out because of it.

Now, might she have another condition? Maybe. However, nothing has been released regarding any other condition. To say it is Parkinson's Disease or any other disease is akin to spreading speculation as truth, i.e. lying. If she's hiding another condition, I'm sure it will come out. Nothing stays hidden forever. But don't lower yourself to spreading rumors and speculations as though they are facts.

But when presented with 'facts,' such as a doctor's report, how can we EVER know if it is true?

Case in point, JFK...his doctor gave a clean bill of health report in 1960, and the man had Addison's. He probably would have died from the disease has he survived Dallas.

So would I believe a doctor report for either candidate? Probably not.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's look at my position closely....

All of that, and nothing about the subject of the post you quoted.

I'm trying not to attack you personally, but when you make the ridiculous claim as you did, it's hard not to.

You pled for Christian decency, and complained about people speculating about Hillary's health. Then, in a different thread, you posted the liberal garbage that the GOP doesn't care if people die in the gutter.

Where is the Christian decency in your falsehood? Why is it okay for you to speculate and post complete lies like that, but it's wrong for anyone to question Hillary's health?

You don't have to respond. I've heard, seen and read the ads from liberals making this absurd and false claim for years. Every POTUS election cycle, liberals run out this baseless and despicable line.

Just don't preach about people needing to show Christian decency and not speculate about your candidate's health, because it's obscenely hypocritical to do so when you post liberal talking points like this.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Barb

But when presented with 'facts,' such as a doctor's report, how can we EVER know if it is true?

Case in point, JFK...his doctor gave a clean bill of health report in 1960, and the man had Addison's. He probably would have died from the disease has he survived Dallas.

So would I believe a doctor report for either candidate? Probably not.

I certainly don't believe the GOP nominee doctor's report!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's look at my position closely.

There are 26 states wherein the Republicans have blocked the Medicare expansion needed to lower the cost of the ACA. The uninsured in those states can't afford the program and so they are going without insurance and treatment that they need. Why don't they allow the Medicare expansion for the time being and offer an entirely new and better plan as part of their platform in the future? And why do their media campaigns fail to explain that they are blocking the Medicare expansion and race to simply condemn the ACA as a failure as though the people are actually seeing Obama's plan? Are they not "making the people suffer" to blame it on the ACA? Of course they are. It's politics, meanwhile, people suffer. It's one of the most vile partisan postures of the century, make people suffer under the ACA so that they can criticize it and simpletons will believe them and vote against it next round. If I were a Republican, I'd be outraged, not because I'd like Obamacare, but because the strategy being employed by state level Republicans is inhumane and cruel.

And don't get me started on the Republican obstruction of the exchange markets as designed under the ACA and how that too is driving up the costs. Frankly, every time you hear a Republican argue that the ACA has driven up health insurance costs for those who can least afford it.... it is the Republican's fault, and they know it. It's by design. They want to sabotage the ACA for the sake of the major insurance companies and providers who are lobbying to undermine the ACA. Only an idiot can't see it, and only the most dishonest would deny it.

In addition, I don't think it reflects decently to spread rumors or speculation about Hillary's health. It's the same indecent and dishonest spirit as seen in those undermining the ACA. After all.... Hillary might have a far more serious condition. Of course they are going to claim something like pneumonia in the beginning, until they can verify exactly what it might be if more serious. I pray it is only pneumonia. However, I think those spreading ill conceived rumors and speculation should be ashamed if it does turn out to be something far more serious.

Human decency will always prevail.

As for practicing what I preach, I can preach about 8 million children helped by SCHIP (my fiancé's daughter one of them). I can testify that my fiancé's mother now has coverage she can afford thanks to the ACA. Had the Republicans advanced their obstructionist agenda here, Mary would be languishing at home choosing between medication and eating.

So, I don't think I'm the one not practicing what they preach.

Those States were wise to block the Medicaid expansion as they will have to fit the bill after a period of time instead of the Feds.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Let's look at my position closely.

There are 26 states wherein the Republicans have blocked the Medicare expansion needed to lower the cost of the ACA. The uninsured in those states can't afford the program and so they are going without insurance and treatment that they need. Why don't they allow the Medicare expansion for the time being and offer an entirely new and better plan as part of their platform in the future? And why do their media campaigns fail to explain that they are blocking the Medicare expansion and race to simply condemn the ACA as a failure as though the people are actually seeing Obama's plan? Are they not "making the people suffer" to blame it on the ACA? Of course they are. It's politics, meanwhile, people suffer. It's one of the most vile partisan postures of the century, make people suffer under the ACA so that they can criticize it and simpletons will believe them and vote against it next round. If I were a Republican, I'd be outraged, not because I'd like Obamacare, but because the strategy being employed by state level Republicans is inhumane and cruel.

And don't get me started on the Republican obstruction of the exchange markets as designed under the ACA and how that too is driving up the costs. Frankly, every time you hear a Republican argue that the ACA has driven up health insurance costs for those who can least afford it.... it is the Republican's fault, and they know it. It's by design. They want to sabotage the ACA for the sake of the major insurance companies and providers who are lobbying to undermine the ACA. Only an idiot can't see it, and only the most dishonest would deny it.

In addition, I don't think it reflects decently to spread rumors or speculation about Hillary's health. It's the same indecent and dishonest spirit as seen in those undermining the ACA. After all.... Hillary might have a far more serious condition. Of course they are going to claim something like pneumonia in the beginning, until they can verify exactly what it might be if more serious. I pray it is only pneumonia. However, I think those spreading ill conceived rumors and speculation should be ashamed if it does turn out to be something far more serious.

Human decency will always prevail.

As for practicing what I preach, I can preach about 8 million children helped by SCHIP (my fiancé's daughter one of them). I can testify that my fiancé's mother now has coverage she can afford thanks to the ACA. Had the Republicans advanced their obstructionist agenda here, Mary would be languishing at home choosing between medication and eating.

So, I don't think I'm the one not practicing what they preach.

Though I am happy for your fiance's mother, I can also preach that about Obamacare. It is NOT affordable or available to everyone, thus 'Affordable Care Act' is a misnomer.

Having lost my job due to illness, and with it went Blue Cross...going through chemo treatments, and trying to find affordable insurance on disability...yeah, my sermon is that it is not equitable.

Now does DT have a better plan than Obamacare? Don't know, but this registered Democrat is not voting the party line either way...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Let's be honest about the expansion and reason for obamacare looking bad.

It looks bad because it is bad. Period. It doesn't need any help to make it appear so.

The GOP blocked the expansion of Medicaid, and rightfully so. It was a fiscally irresponsible and bad deal. obama wants Congress to forcefully expand Medicaid to states which don't want to be overburdened with the cost. obama claims it will be 100% funded by the government...until 2020, when states will begin to take on 10% of the cost. No word on how much that will rise after 2020. Even if it doesn't rise beyond 10%, could you imagine states like Texas, Florida and California having to cover 10% of the cost? Even here in Arizona it would be a disaster.

The GOP counters by saying this should be given to states as block grants, for individual states to use as needed. The government's one size fits all expansion will not work.

Also, a bit of honesty is needed here. The reason obamacare is a bad deal is not because the GOP blocked this bad deal. The reason insurance companies have pulled out of obamacare is not because the GOP blocked Medicaid expansion. The reason medical device manufacturers have gone out of business is not because the GOP blocked this bad deal.

It is dishonest, political hackery to claim this.

They backed out because under the ACA it is no longer as profitable to remain in those markets.

Here's the deal, we can either have a system where the premiums are constantly rising to cover the unpaid bills of the uninsured.... or we can have a system wherein everyone pays something into the system and it is subsidized by the government.

The last resort would be a truly free market answer.... ERs and hospitals could be allowed to just deny medical services to those who are uninsured or can't pay in cold hard cash.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Barb

But when presented with 'facts,' such as a doctor's report, how can we EVER know if it is true?

Good question. The very nature of politics at this level causes me to expect to be lied to at first if they are investigating something more serious. Sadly, I think that would happen regardless as to if it were a Democrat or a Republican. And, I'm not really all that critical of it. However, I do believe this.... the truth will eventually come out.

Case in point, JFK...his doctor gave a clean bill of health report in 1960, and the man had Addison's. He probably would have died from the disease has he survived Dallas.

That is entirely possible. However, we aren't a eugenic nation that demands that a President be in absolute perfect health are we? If the people are for the agenda of a leader, Democrat or Republican, it does America well to elect that leader so that whatever good they might do might be done. I don't believe in discriminating against people that might have health issues. Now, does it raise extra concerns? Yes! For one, it makes one's VP pick all the more important.

So would I believe a doctor report for either candidate? Probably not.

All I know is the official story on Hillary is pneumonia. Do I have doubts? Not really. But, if I were to find out that there was something more, would I be surprised? Not really. I'm on stand by to see her recover or for more information to be released.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

All of that, and nothing about the subject of the post you quoted.

I'm trying not to attack you personally, but when you make the ridiculous claim as you did, it's hard not to.

You pled for Christian decency, and complained about people speculating about Hillary's health. Then, in a different thread, you posted the liberal garbage that the GOP doesn't care if people die in the gutter.

And I stand by it. The Republicans have done nothing to help those in desperate need of insurance. I've told you about my mother. She died without health insurance. And had she had health insurance, she'd most likely be with us today.

Where is the Christian decency in your falsehood? Why is it okay for you to speculate and post complete lies like that, but it's wrong for anyone to question Hillary's health?

I don't see it as a falsehood. The Republicans don't give a lick that people are struggling and in desperate need of health insurance. They argue it isn't fiscally wise to expand the Medicare expansion. Money over people. Really? Get real. I'm a tax payer and let me tell you.... I'd rather see Medicare expanded, they argue that we can't afford it.... while giving away nearly $100 billion in corporate subsidies to corporations recording record profits. Give me a break. They're monsters. Thugs. Corporate lap dogs. And they don't care that people are in desperate need of health care right now. If they did, they could make provisional expansions to bring down costs at least until they could present a better plan. But the truth is.... they don't have a better plan.

If the Republicans blocking Medicare expansion are so noble, why are they trying to keep it all quiet and simply blaming the ACA??? Why does Joe Public not realize that the Republicans are blocking market exchanges and Medicare expansions??? It's because they are liars. Lying as people need care. Again, do something for those needing care now, and present a better plan when able. Don't just let people suffer while you do nothing but gripe about the plan in place.

A bad plan is always better than no plan.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

I certainly don't believe the GOP nominee doctor's report!

I don't know if I believe what was last presented by Trump either. LOL