Unmerited Favor?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The Greek word is translated many ways (as my quote shows) and then in context is explained as referring to the favor without works we receive from God (as my quote shows)

Strongs does not show you were it's translated. It just shows HOW it was translated in the KJV.. That does not define the word. It shows how it was translated in the KJV

Grace means favor
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grace

And that favor we received without works

Right, and Favour means Graciouseness in both the Hebrew and the Greek. I NEVER use an English Dictionary to look up Bible word definitions. So grace and favour mean the same thing - graciousness.

And why is works being viewed as "undeserving" or "unmerited"? Isn't is simply saying it is nothing we can do for ourselves? Isn't it as simple as that?

Titus 3:5 says that it is not by our works of righteousness, but by His mercy, i.e., His compassion.

I am all for remaining humble, but not to the point of having a negative view of God toward me and my standing in His eyes. I don't see Him viewing us, that are in obedience to Him, as an undeserving lot of people. And I don't think he reached out to save my life with that view either. And really, as He remembers that we are dust, I don't think He views those who are out of the way as undeserving either. It's just too negative of a thought for a God that puts our sins as far as the east is from the west.

Originally Posted by votivesoul

You know, Noah found favor with God. We are not told it was unmerited favor, just that he found favor.

The only clue as to a possible reason why is because Noah was a preacher of righteousness.

Had Noah been a maurading lunatic like the rest of the world at the time, would he have found any favor with God?

Good post. You get what I am asking!

I agree. Have we stretched this thought, "unmerited favour", too far?

I am still studying on the subject. This is one example of, IMO, a skewed view of grace. I read part of an article stating that a good example of "grace" as "unmerited favour" was the prodigal son and that even though he humbled himself and repented, there was no basis for grace to be shown to him.

What? He humbled himself and repented, but was still undeserving of Grace? That makes no sense.

All I read is that kindness, mercy and graciousness were given to him because he changed his mind and wanted to change his life. Forgiveness is ultimate compassion, not looking past that to interject a thought so offensive as "undeserving". How can you be compassionate with that thought in the back of your mind?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Right, and Favour means Graciouseness in both the Hebrew and the Greek. I NEVER use an English Dictionary to look up Bible word definitions. So grace and favour mean the same thing - graciousness.

PO..when you use a bible dictionary, it gives you how it was translated into ENGLISH. It then becomes necessary to use an english dictionary.

And why is works being viewed as "undeserving" or "unmerited"? Isn't is simply saying it is nothing we can do for ourselves? Isn't it as simple as that?

Paul said we are saved by Grace/Favor NOT BY WORKS..Again we may have to use a dictionary to look up Merit but essentially it means unearned. You did not have to do something to earn/merit grace

This is where "unmerited favor" comes from. It comes NOT from the definition of the word but from how it's used in scripture

Titus 3:5 says that it is not by our works of righteousness, but by His mercy, i.e., His compassion.

Yes not by OUR works. We did not earn it
out of time for now

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

PO..when you use a bible dictionary, it gives you how it was translated into ENGLISH. It then becomes necessary to use an english dictionary.

I've never used a Webster's after viewing the word definition on e-sword. I mean, one time you were, again, railing on Strong's definition of "one" and it ended up being what Strong's said it was. I would have to pull up the thread discussion.

Paul said we are saved by Grace/Favor NOT BY WORKS..Again we may have to use a dictionary to look up Merit but essentially it means unearned. You did not have to do something to earn/merit grace

This is where "unmerited favor" comes from. It comes NOT from the definition of the word but from how it's used in scripture.

Or how you are reading it. I've been really busy and haven't looked through every verse. So, I'm not saying the view doesn't have merit.

Yes not by OUR works. We did not earn it
out of time for now

Right, we didn't earn it, but it doesn't necessarily mean we are undeserving. Like I said, I am still reading through passages. So, my verdict is still out. I know the "unmerited favor" is set in stone. It just seemed interesting when I looked at it closer.

[mizpeh]

χηαρισ(5485)
Pronunciation: khar'-ece
Origin: from 5463
Reference: TDNT - 9:372,1298
Part of Speech: n f
In Greek: χαριν 42, χαριτα 2, χαριτι 24, χαριτος 27, χαρις 60
In NET: grace 92, Grace 21, favor 7, thanks 5, by grace 3, of grace 3, credit 3, gracious 2, act of kindness 2, a favor 2, gracious gift after another 2, Thanks 2, blessing 1, good will 1, joy 1, thank 1, thankful 1, in favor 1, grateful 1, gift 1, thankfulness 1, generous gift 1
Count: 156
Definition: 1) grace 1a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech 2) good will, loving-kindness, favour 2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues 3) what is due to grace 3a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace 3b) the token or proof of grace, benefit 3b1) a gift of grace 3b2) benefit, bounty 4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):-acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy). see GREEK for 5463

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Ephesians+2

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

χηαρισ(5485)
Pronunciation: khar'-ece
Origin: from 5463
Reference: TDNT - 9:372,1298
Part of Speech: n f
In Greek: χαριν 42, χαριτα 2, χαριτι 24, χαριτος 27, χαρις 60
In NET: grace 92, Grace 21, favor 7, thanks 5, by grace 3, of grace 3, credit 3, gracious 2, act of kindness 2, a favor 2, gracious gift after another 2, Thanks 2, blessing 1, good will 1, joy 1, thank 1, thankful 1, in favor 1, grateful 1, gift 1, thankfulness 1, generous gift 1
Count: 156
Definition: 1) grace 1a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech 2) good will, loving-kindness, favour 2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues 3) what is due to grace 3a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace 3b) the token or proof of grace, benefit 3b1) a gift of grace 3b2) benefit, bounty 4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):-acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy). see GREEK for 5463

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Ephesians+2

G5463
χαίρω
chairō
khah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to be full of “cheer”, that is, calmly happy or well off; impersonal especially as a salutation (on meeting or parting), be well: - farewell, be glad, God speed, greeting, hail, joy (-fully), rejoice.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I've never used a Webster's after viewing the word definition on e-sword. I mean, one time you were, again, railing on Strong's definition of "one" and it ended up being what Strong's said it was. I would have to pull up the thread discussion.

This will be my final reply. Strong lumps The three Greek words One under One heading without telling u which one. No I was not wrong.. Esword tells us what the word was translated to into English.Websters is an English dictionary

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

χηαρισ(5485)
Pronunciation: khar'-ece
Origin: from 5463
Reference: TDNT - 9:372,1298
Part of Speech: n f
In Greek: χαριν 42, χαριτα 2, χαριτι 24, χαριτος 27, χαρις 60
In NET: grace 92, Grace 21, favor 7, thanks 5, by grace 3, of grace 3, credit 3, gracious 2, act of kindness 2, a favor 2, gracious gift after another 2, Thanks 2, blessing 1, good will 1, joy 1, thank 1, thankful 1, in favor 1, grateful 1, gift 1, thankfulness 1, generous gift 1
Count: 156
Definition: 1) grace 1a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech 2) good will, loving-kindness, favour 2a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues 3) what is due to grace 3a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace 3b) the token or proof of grace, benefit 3b1) a gift of grace 3b2) benefit, bounty 4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward
from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):-acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, liberality, pleasure, thank(-s, -worthy). see GREEK for 5463

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/Ephesians+2

So that one simple word means all that? Hmmmm.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

This will be my final reply. Strong lumps The three Greek words One under One heading without telling u which one. No I was not wrong.. Esword tells us what the word was translated to into English.Websters is an English dictionary

Actually, you weren't right about that. I tried to locate the thread, but don't remember the title. If I remember it, I'll bump the particular posts on the exact exchange.

[votivesoul]

Out of the four types of life created by God, humans are the only group, if you will, given any sort of grace. Angels, animals, and plants are not given grace. Of course, the last two categories don't need grace, since they do not sin.

But why is it that angels are not given grace for their sins? Why are humans given MUCH grace for our sins?

It is true that grace is not earned. It is freely given by a faithful, loving Creator.

But consider this idea:

Jesus, the sinless Son of God, has purchased us with His blood, redeeming us back to God the Father. We are now heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. We've been adopted by the One Spirit into the family of the Lord.

I submit therefore that for all born again saints, grace, while not merited through personal actions to earn it, is nonetheless ours by right! Jesus Christ was and is full of grace and truth. By being filled with the same Spirit, we too can and ought to be filled with grace and truth, as well. Indeed, John wrote that we have received the fullness of God in Christ, even of grace for grace (John 1:16).

That grace is upon us, and in us. It is impossible to have received the power of God to become His sons through Christ, and have NOT received such grace.

Zechariah foretold of a time when the "spirit of grace and supplication" would be poured out on the house of David and Jersualem adjacent to the time of the crucifixion (See Zechariah 12:10 and John 19:37). That grace has been poured out in the atonement, received in the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

This saving grace is part of the earnest of our inheritance. Jesus tasted death for every one by the "grace of God" (Hebrews 2:9). We receive such a grace because of our obedience to the faith of the Son of God by the Holy Spirit (Romans 1:5, Galatians 3:2 & 14).

So, it's not earned, but it is gratuitously given to all who are the children of God. None are refused. And in fact, it was the grace of God that drew us to the Lord in the first place, and as a teacher, shows us how to live (Titus 2:11).

Now, some might say that we'd get a big head and take grace for granted. Well, only idiots would do such a thing. Rather, the grace of God, poured out freely upon all who believe and obey, ours by right, ought to make us humble and thankful, filling our hearts with gratitude, as the recipients of such an awesome grace (i.e. the very meaning of charis).

[Godsdrummer]

We can go round and round, on this, but consider this

Rom_5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

As a sinner, did you deserve salvation? I would have to say no. So Christ dies while we were undeserving of his love.

In other words God showed grace to us while we were unmerited.