List of grace giving churches.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.

The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.

Catholics don't force tithing. They are the richest religion in the world.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Jesus said clearly, where your treasure is, there is your heart.
If your treasure is in this world, this is where your heart is.

Text to establish tithing money please?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Tithing money is for the continuation of the labor of God.

The people in the book of acts even sold their houses to give all the money to the Apostles, I am sure selling a home is way more than the tithe.

The Apostles even collected money from some churches to give to other poor churches.

Show me where you spend your money and I will show you what is your God.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Voluntary/free will giving. I see no tithe of money in your post.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Catholics don't force tithing. They are the richest religion in the world.

First of all there is no such thing as force tithing, anyone who doesn't want to be a Christian is free to walk out the door, there are no guards at the door.
The catholic is the richest because of all their past tricks and the chicanery that they do. They fleece their flocks in other ways.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Text to establish tithing money please?

There is no need to rewrite Malachi in the New Testament.

[Nitehawk013]

Malachi chapter 1 establishes about as clearly as possible that the letter(Malachi) was a rebuke of the Levites, not the everyday jew. There are NO MORE Levites today. The levitical priesthood was done away with. Its right there in Hebrews. So using a rebuke letter to a defunct priesthood to command financial support from the church today is just pathetic hermeneutics.

If tithing were important Paul, Peter, James or some NT Apostle would have at least passively dealt with the issue. Instead we have silence throughout the NT except a mention in Hebrews...which is only talking about the PAST.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Relax, It's about assemblies that function from freewill giving. Not endorsing any of them. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Maybe i should have worded it differently.

Michael and I have gone round and round on things like this. He doesn't see things categorically. Thus, he doesn't see that you're pointing out functional churches that operate under grace giving... he sees that they have grace giving, their Christology, their position on the rapture, etc.

Then asks you if grace giving is the most important doctrine of all. I think we can agree that it isn't... but it is the subject of the thread. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Grace giving is another phrase used to mean FREEWILL GIVING. The listings are to show that forced tithing of money are not necessary to sustain buildings called churches.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

No Apostolic church would commit financial suicide in order to support a strange new doctrine.

I see some issues here. The first is fear. Yes, fear. The assumption is that without tithing a church is committing suicide. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Why? It's simple. Nearly every charitable organization in America functions in accordance to fee will donations and pledges. And they are not "committing suicide". In fact, most have far more revenue for their ministry than most churches. However, I've seen churches that demand tithing slow to a virtual crawl with relation to the number attending. You'll notice that they develop the faithful core... and then the rest come and go. The core keeps the church afloat and the transient saints attend and leave throughout the year. Their retention rates are typically abysmal if charted after a year of a major "revival". Yet a "grace giving" church allows people to attend freely, and remain in good standing, as they give what they can. This is important... people don't feel dangled over hell for 10% of their income and they rejoice in God's grace and give freely to the work. On average they may not give as much each offering as a tither would individually... yet the number attending normally presents a greater harvest. For example... would you rather have 10 dedicated tithers in one service bringing in around $2000... or 1000 dedicated givers giving about $10 each for a total of $10,000? As numbers grow so does the harvest... exponentially. Not only that, but churches that believe in "grace giving" also have "covenant partners" who pledge to give a certain amount or percentage for a year. This helps with budget projections. This pledge is treated like a vow before God... and to break the vow is indeed considered a grave sin that will bring a curse. Also tithe demanding churches don't distribute the tithe among the parties that the tithe was biblically supposed to support. Therefore, unlike the OT tithe and modern tithe is a woeful burden upon many who are on the edge of poverty. In a grace giving church even the poorest member can contribute what they reasonably can and remain in good standing... and even be used in ministry. Thus grace giving relieves the burden of the poor.

Grace giving is far more than just happy go lucky "free will offerings". There is a philosophy and an approach to it.

In fact, those who believe in tithing demonstrate their lack of faith that God will provide if they don't dangle people over hell to extort money from them. Grace giving churches exercise faith and watch as God miraculously moves on individual hearts to meet needs as they arise. It takes faith to build a ministry or a church on grace giving. It only takes a fist to bang on a pulpit to demand the tithe for fear that the church would be "committing suicide" without it.

The tithe was established from before the law, during the law and even after the law.

Prior to the law the tithe was a customary voluntary tribute that established a covenant relationship. It was most often a one time contribution unless one sought a continued covenant relationship with a local leader. However, it was entirely voluntary and no one went to Hell because they didn't tithe. Thus... the OT tithe is much closer to grace giving in it's philosophy. Please note... most "covenant partners" in grace giving churches vow... a tithe. And it's voluntary as it was in the OT. This being said... grace giving cannot be called some strange new doctrine. In fact, the first generation of Christians lived while the temple was standing and many continued their connection to the Jewish community. They would "tithe" to the temple as the law demanded (as Jews) and give freely to their Christian brothers and sisters as needs arose. However, after the expulsion of Christians from the Jewish communities Christians ceased to tithe and gave heartily and freely to their Christian communities.

Now, a special note is in order. The laws governing the tithe I the OT was strictly in relation to harvest and live stock. However, if one lived too far away to bring their harvest and livestock to the temple... they could sell it and bring the money to the temple. Once one arrived at the temple, those who brought harvest and livestock (and those who brought money) had to exchange their harvest and livestock (or unclean money) for a ceremonial kind of money that was only valuable to use in the temple offerings. Thus the Jewish temple system racked in quite a profit in grain, livestock, and money. When the Christians were excluded from temple services and began to spread throughout the empire this process was abandoned along with attending the temple. Christians were also typically of the poorer classes; slaves and servants. Not a lot of "money" to give. And since Christians didn't have "church buildings" for nearly 300 years we know that there were no "banks" or special locations to store vast amounts of revenue, grain, or livestock. The truth is... they gave heartily and shared their lives to meet every need that arose as it arose.

Grace giving. Praise God.

[Esaias]

The word tithe means 'ten percent', a 'tenth'. Abraham gave a tenth of war booty to the priest. It was not 10 percent of his paycheck, it was not cash, and it was a one time event, it was not commanded, it was freewill.

Israel payed tithes (more than one, apparently), but that cannot be done now even if you wanted to because 1)there are no more Levites, 2)there is no Temple in Jerusalem, and if there was a Temple then 3)God has abandoned the use of special buildings like temples.

Besides, the OT tithe was not in cash or money, was not 10 percent of your wages or income,, was eaten by the one paying the tithe (along with the Levite, the orphans, the strangers), and was not paid every week or every month.

Finally, if the 'tithe-teachers' were correct, then Jewish Christians in the NT had to pay 20 percent - 10 percent to the Levites in Jerusalem and 10 percent to their local elders.

Pure nonsense.