Tithing, Mandate for the New Testament Church?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We've gone around and around on this issue on here for years. No one is going to change their mind. If you believe it's valid, then you will continue to tithe. If you don't believe it's biblical, then you will continue NOT to tithe.

As for me and my house.........no one could convince me not to tithe. I've seen the principles work for 33 years of marriage. I just heard a testimony from someone this morning that started tithing about six months ago, because the Lord was speaking to them as a couple. The miracles that have happened in their finances since then have been just supernatural. They are definitely believers now.

it really comes about by being cheerful givers. imho

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I believe if you enjoy having a full time ministry and a building then you should donate money to support the ministry and that building and it's costs

Agreed.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Sherri

We've gone around and around on this issue on here for years. No one is going to change their mind. If you believe it's valid, then you will continue to tithe. If you don't believe it's biblical, then you will continue NOT to tithe.

.

Well yes sort of... though I am not sure it effects the actual amounts people give. I think it needs to be said that some who do NOT "believe in tithing" are big givers nevertheless. In fact, I have often wondered if those who churches teach a mandatory ten percent receive more or less than those who do not.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Tithing was established long before the Mosaic law.....

Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Animal sacrifice also predates the Mosaic law. Shall we continue sacrificing animals too?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Animal sacrifice also predates the Mosaic law. Shall we continue sacrificing animals too?

Nope. The perfect lamb has been sacrificed by the perfect high priest of the order of Melchizedek.

Prayer predates the Mosaic law but that doesn't mean prayer to God should cease. Hearing from God predates the Mosaic law but that doesn't mean hearing from God should cease. Submitting oneself to God predates the Mosaic law but that doesn't mean submitting oneself to God should cease. Obeying God predates the Mosaic law but that doesn't mean that obedience to God should cease.

Paying tithes is worship, as seen with the example of Abraham and Melchizedek, and shouldn't cease simply because an epoch is past.

[Trouvere]

If you are tithing under the Old Testament law then you ought to observe the whole thing. They were an example for us. Tithing should be the minimal. If they could give ten percent without the Holy Ghost shame on us who have it. We are to give a minimal of 10 percent. We need to be asking Jesus how much to give and it should never be the skin flint minimal using the Old Testament law to justify ourselves as to why we are so tight.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by acerrak

The only other New Testament mention of tithing is in Hebrews. The fact that Abraham was blessed by and paid tithes to Melchizedek illustrates the superiority of Melchizedek and Jesus Christ over the Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:1-10). The passage then goes on to note that "when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law" (verse 12).

There was a change of the priesthood from the Levites to Jesus Christ, and this implies a change in the law that assigned the Levites to be priests. How much has been changed? Hebrews says that the old covenant is obsolete. The package of laws that commanded tithes to be given to the Levites is obsolete.

I agree that the Levitical tithing system is obsolete. That was the point of my previous post. It became obsolete when the Levitical priesthood was replaced by a better one. I don't think that means we are left without a tithing system. Jesus' high priesthood is patterned after the earlier Melchisedec one; our new tithing system is patterned after the same, as well.

Humans should honor God by voluntarily returning some of the blessings he gives them — this is still a valid principle. The only place that a percentage is required is within the old covenant. There is good precedent for tithing before Sinai, but no proof that it was required

I believe we are actually under a new commandment: "give" (see Lu 6:38). That commandment can require up to 100%: it is open-ended.

Under the old covenant, tithing was required for the support of the old covenant ministers. The Israelites were required to give 10 percent — and their blessing was only a physical one! Christians in the new covenant have much better blessings — spiritual ones. How much more willingly ought we to give in thankfulness for the eternal blessings we have in Christ Jesus?

The Apostle Paul, in 1Cor 9, discusses this and directly links the basic principle of ministerial support that was under the Law to the NT church ministry:

"For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?" (1 Cor 9:9-11).

So, we see the command was given not only for the benefit of the old Levitical ministry, but- according to Paul- for the benefit of the NT church ministry, as well.

When we examine all of these passages together, I believe we are led to the following conclusions:

1)- We are under a new tithing system under a new priesthood patterned after Melchisedec;

2)- This new tithing system IS for the support of the church ministry;

3)- Although "tithe" does mean "a tenth", our high priest Jesus' command in Lu 6:38 is open-ended, which means our giving should be a minimum of a "tenth of the increase" up to 100%- depending upon the need.

This is why I personally practice "open handed" giving. I give a minimum 10%. When a need arises which requires me to give more, I do.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

If you are tithing under the Old Testament law then you ought to observe the whole thing. They were an example for us. Tithing should be the minimal. If they could give ten percent without the Holy Ghost shame on us who have it. We are to give a minimal of 10 percent. We need to be asking Jesus how much to give and it should never be the skin flint minimal using the Old Testament law to justify ourselves as to why we are so tight.

Jacob wanted the blessing before he tithed.
again tithe was food animals wheat barley etc.

In the new covenant we are to be cheerful givers, however the money used went to the homless the poor, the widows, and to those in need.

problem today with churches is they preach tithes and use malachi to state that you will be under a curse if you dont.

One just needs to be a cheerful giver, for it is more blessed to give than recieve.

we get blessed because we give. There is no arguement in that. But i would say lets get back to the principles that Paul taught about giving

[Apocrypha]

I applaud those who tithe out of their heart. I see it as a consecration (something set apart to the Lord). Similar to fasting, or giving something unto the Lord as a act of lifestyle worship/commitment.

My primary question: If tithing is New Testament, why did the early church not practice it as doctrine for its first 300 years until its mentioned in Apostolic Constitutions and later made official doctrine in 585 AD by the Counsel of Synod of Macon?

The bonus second question is that if we are to collect all 3 types biblical tithes like those under the law, should our "priesthood" / clergy SPEND THEM like the Old Testament instructs us to? Are they sinning because they are saying we are back under the law of tithing and yet don't obey the same law when they collect tithes? Food for thought.

Did Paul collect tithes while in Corinth... or did he work a job? If all the para-doctrines I see in the modern church about tithing were true was Paul sinning by not having the Corinthian church tithe... or is something misunderstood in our modern setting.

A survey of all the writings of the Early Church up to A.D. 600 (easy to dowith computers) is silent about tithing in the Church being a necessity.

In fact, it was the position of the great early Church Father Irenaeus that tithing was a legal obligation in the Law of Moses and therefore is no longerbinding. He explains this in chapter XIII of book IV in “Irenaeus Against Heresies”…

Irenaeus (A.D. 120-202)
And for this reason did the Lord, instead of that [commandment], “Thoushalt not commit adultery,” forbid even concupiscence; and instead of thatwhich runs thus, “Thou shalt not kill,” He prohibited anger; and instead ofthe law enjoining the giving of tithes, [He told us] to share all our possessions with the poor;

And again in chapter XVIII of book IV he again states…And for this reason they (the Jews) had indeed the tithes of their goodsconsecrated to Him, but those who have received the liberty set aside alltheir possessions for the Lord’s purposes, bestowing joyfully and freely notthe less valuable portions of their property, since they have the hope ofbetter things [hereafter]; as that poor widow acted who cast all her living intothe treasury of God.

Tertullian –c. 150-220 (apology, XXXIX, 1-18)…Our presidents are elders of proved worth, men who have attained thishonor not for a price, but by character. Every man brings some modest coinonce a month or whenever he wishes, and only if he is willing and able; it is a freewill offering. You might call them the trust-funds of piety; they arespent… on the support and burial of the poor.

Tertullian (c. 197, W 3.46) Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs (p.9)…Though we have our treasure chest, it is not made up of purchase money,as of a religion that has its price. Rather, on the monthly day, if he likes,each puts in a small donation – but only if it is his pleasure and only if he isable. For there is no compulsion; all is voluntary.

Hastings Dictionary of the Apostolic Church says: "It is admitted universally that the payment of tithes or the tenth of possessions for sacred purposes did not find a place within the Christian church during the age covered by the apostles and their immediate successors".

Encyclopedia Britannica says: "The Christian church depended at first on voluntary gifts from its members"

The Encyclopedia Americana says: "It [speaking of tithing] was not practiced in the early church"; "The Christian church depended at first on voluntary gifts from its members".

The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The early church had no tithing system—it was not that no need of supporting the Church existed or was recognized, but rather that other means would suffice"

Portions of this were exerpted from http://www.allnationsmin.org/Downloa...on_Tithing.pdf

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

If you are tithing under the Old Testament law then you ought to observe the whole thing. They were an example for us. Tithing should be the minimal. If they could give ten percent without the Holy Ghost shame on us who have it. We are to give a minimal of 10 percent. We need to be asking Jesus how much to give and it should never be the skin flint minimal using the Old Testament law to justify ourselves as to why we are so tight.

From Wikipedia:

In the time of Moses and Under Mosaic LawThe tithe is specifically mentioned in the Book of Leviticus, the Book of Numbers and also in the Book of Deuteronomy. The tithing system was organized in a 7 year cycle, corresponding to the Shemittah cycle. Every year, Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser were separated from the grain, wine and oil (as regards other fruit and produce, the Biblical requirement to tithe is a source of debate). Deuteronomy 14:22 Unlike other offerings which were restricted to consumption within the tabernacle, the yearly tithe to the Levites could be consumed anywhere (Numbers 18:31-14). On years one, two, four and five of the Shemittah cycle, God commanded the Children of Israel to take a second tithe that was to be brought to the city of Jerusalem. Deuteronomy 14:23 The owner of the produce was to separate and bring 1/10 of his finished produce to Jerusalem after separating Terumah and the first tithe, but if the family lived too far from Jerusalem, the tithe could be redeemed upon coins. Deuteronomy 14:23Then, the Bible required the owner of the redeemed coins to spend the tithe "to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish." Deuteronomy 14:22-27 Implicit in the commandment was an obligation to spend the coins on items meant for human consumption. According to the Hebrew Scriptures, the second tithe could be brought to Jerusalem any time of the year and there was no specific obligation to bring the second tithe to Jerusalem for the Festival of Sukkot. The only time restriction was a commandment to remove all the tithes from one's house in the end of the third year. Deuteronomy 14:28

The third year was called "the year of tithing" Deuteronomy 26:12-14 in which the Israelites set aside 10% of the increase of the land, they were to give this tithe to the Levites, strangers, orphans, and widows. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" Deuteronomy 14:28 to support the Levites and assist the poor.

The Levites, also known as the tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Israelite priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore, a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony Numbers 18:21-28. Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe for the Aaronic priests in Jerusalem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe#I...der_Mosaic_Law