Why Democracy in the Mid East is Dangerous for USA

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Twisp

But who are we to not want other countries to have the same say in their government as we do in ours?

This kind of sanctimonious approach to dangerous, bloodthirsty cultures will be the death of us. You assume that Muslims and Arabs think with a Judeo-Christian sense of compassion and goodwill. That's foolish. History is a great teacher. Study this religion, study these cultures and you won't find a track record of peace-loving, magnanimous and concerted efforts to achieve liberty and justice for all. Its a long, bloody history of conquest, domination, martyrdom, murder, assassination, atrocities, warfare, jihad, rape, subjegation of women, etc. They have never enjoyed long periods of peace and prosperity except when they were colonized by Western powers. You can't ignore the history. Learn from it or be doomed to repeat it.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The issue isn't forms of government, a hateful dictator can pose just as much a threat. I would think a democracy, that allows room for dissenting opinion, would be more helpful for irrational governmental decisions.

But that's just me...

You assume that whoever achieves power in a Muslim/Arab state would allow dissent. You won't find ANY Arab state that allows for dissent. What we will see, I predict, are strongmen replacing strongmen. Watch these nations that overthrow their leaders. There will be blood in the streets as people fight for control. There won't be any shred of resemblance of what we would call democracy.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

This kind of sanctimonious approach to dangerous, bloodthirsty cultures will be the death of us. You assume that Muslims and Arabs think with a Judeo-Christian sense of compassion and goodwill. That's foolish. History is a great teacher. Study this religion, study these cultures and you won't find a track record of peace-loving, magnanimous and concerted efforts to achieve liberty and justice for all. Its a long, bloody history of conquest, domination, martyrdom, murder, assassination, atrocities, warfare, jihad, rape, subjegation of women, etc. They have never enjoyed long periods of peace and prosperity except when they were colonized by Western powers. You can't ignore the history. Learn from it or be doomed to repeat it.

So once a culture reaches a level of irresponsibility that we deem dangerous, we should deny them free elections and whatever type of government they desire?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Twisp

So once a culture reaches a level of irresponsibility that we deem dangerous, we should deny them free elections and whatever type of government they desire?

They haven't reached that level---that is the fiber of their culture! They live with the dogma that Israel should be destroyed, that Christianity should be eliminated, that the West should be dominated. We go to their turf, some people die as a result of conflict, but within years they are enjoying peace, prosperity and freedom. If they are not kept at bay, they will come seeking to dominate us. I promise you it won't be peace, prosperity and freedom.

With hindsight, propping up the Shah of Iran and preventing the Islamic Revolution there in 1979 would have been a much better alternative than allowing the Muslim clerics running the country as they have for 32 years sponsoring terrorism, fomenting instability in the region, seeking nuclear weapons, threatening Israel and America.

Oh yes, they have elections in Iran, but when the opposition wins, they alter the results, they imprison the opposition leaders and they kill their own people in the streets. So much for the wisdom of letting these people determine their own destinies...

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

They haven't reached that level---that is the fiber of their culture! They live with the dogma that Israel should be destroyed, that Christianity should be eliminated, that the West should be dominated. We go to their turf, some people die as a result of conflict, but within years they are enjoying peace, prosperity and freedom. If they are not kept at bay, they will come seeking to dominate us. I promise you it won't be peace, prosperity and freedom.

With hindsight, propping up the Shah of Iran and preventing the Islamic Revolution there in 1979 would have been a much better alternative than allowing the Muslim clerics running the country as they have for 32 years sponsoring terrorism, fomenting instability in the region, seeking nuclear weapons, threatening Israel and America.

Oh yes, they have elections in Iran, but when the opposition wins, they alter the results, they imprison the opposition leaders and they kill their own people in the streets. So much for the wisdom of letting these people determine their own destinies...

So America decides when a country reaches a level that would allow them to have free elections and elect the type of government they want?

Christians believe that every nation that does not follow Christ is damned and will be destroyed by Christ. Christians believe that Christ will come back to kill His enemies. Christians believe that everyone who does not agree with their God will be lost in hell forever, endlessly tortured by their loving God.

Perhaps Christians should not be allowed a say in who governs them either because of their violent ideology?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Twisp

So America decides when a country reaches a level that would allow them to have free elections and elect the type of government they want?

Christians believe that every nation that does not follow Christ is damned and will be destroyed by Christ. Christians believe that Christ will come back to kill His enemies. Christians believe that everyone who does not agree with their God will be lost in hell forever, endlessly tortured by their loving God.

Perhaps Christians should not be allowed a say in who governs them either because of their violent ideology?

You have issues with seeing reality.

It is also clear you don't understand followers of Christ.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Twisp

So America decides when a country reaches a level that would allow them to have free elections and elect the type of government they want?

We live in the 21st century. 19th century and early 20th century isolationism is not a viable option for us. We tried our best to stay out of WWII but it came knocking on our door. Hundreds of thousands of our own men dead at the hands of men bent on world domination later, we took a different course. 9/11 was a reminder to us that there are evil people in the world not content until we are destroyed as a nation.

We have a storied history of liberating people, fixing their countries, handing it back to them long after we've spent trillions of dollars and shed the blood of thousands of our own to allow them freedom.

However, the history, religion and culture of the Muslim/Arab world is vastly different and complicated. They fight and kill each other as frequently as they do each other. I am seriuosly doubtful they will be able to coalesce in order to build a culture that embraces freedom, peace and order. They don't respect diplomacy and compromise. They respect the sword and domination.

Christians believe that every nation that does not follow Christ is damned and will be destroyed by Christ. Christians believe that Christ will come back to kill His enemies. Christians believe that everyone who does not agree with their God will be lost in hell forever, endlessly tortured by their loving God.

Perhaps Christians should not be allowed a say in who governs them either because of their violent ideology?

We don't believe it is our cause to kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world. When Jesus returns there will be peace on earth for 1,000 years. Yes for those who threaten and oppose the children of God it will be a day of great distress and death. But the vengeance and the wrath of a Holy God is a far cry from the demonic influenced tenets of the Koran.

Many have committed atrocities in the name of Christ unfortunately. But these are the exceptions to the rule. Who pays out the lion's share of charity to the world when earthquakes, tsunamis, and other tragedies occur? North American and European Christian charities and organizations. For every violent act committed in the name of Christ I can point to 1,000 acts of love and kindness. If you take an honest look at Islam and Arab countries you won't find equitable stats.

We have in our own history presidents who tackled evil head on with success and those who tried to be more diplomatic with evil to our own detrement as a nation. In a nuclear age we cannot take chances that put us at risk.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

We live in the 21st century. 19th century and early 20th century isolationism is not a viable option for us. We tried our best to stay out of WWII but it came knocking on our door. Hundreds of thousands of our own men dead at the hands of men bent on world domination later, we took a different course. 9/11 was a reminder to us that there are evil people in the world not content until we are destroyed as a nation.

We have a storied history of liberating people, fixing their countries, handing it back to them long after we've spent trillions of dollars and shed the blood of thousands of our own to allow them freedom.

However, the history, religion and culture of the Muslim/Arab world is vastly different and complicated. They fight and kill each other as frequently as they do each other. I am seriuosly doubtful they will be able to coalesce in order to build a culture that embraces freedom, peace and order. They don't respect diplomacy and compromise. They respect the sword and domination.

So you do think that America should regulate other countries elections and government if that country has not shown a history of getting along with other countries?

We don't believe it is our cause to kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world. When Jesus returns there will be peace on earth for 1,000 years. Yes for those who threaten and oppose the children of God it will be a day of great distress and death. But the vengeance and the wrath of a Holy God is a far cry from the demonic influenced tenets of the Koran.

Many have committed atrocities in the name of Christ unfortunately. But these are the exceptions to the rule. Who pays out the lion's share of charity to the world when earthquakes, tsunamis, and other tragedies occur? North American and European Christian charities and organizations. For every violent act committed in the name of Christ I can point to 1,000 acts of love and kindness. If you take an honest look at Islam and Arab countries you won't find equitable stats.

We have in our own history presidents who tackled evil head on with success and those who tried to be more diplomatic with evil to our own detrement as a nation. In a nuclear age we cannot take chances that put us at risk.

You believe that your God will kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world.

Radical Muslims believe that their God will kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world.

The only difference being you are waiting on your God to do it, radical Muslims are trying to help their God out and do it themselves.

End result is the same.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Twisp

So you do think that America should regulate other countries elections and government if that country has not shown a history of getting along with other countries?




You believe that your God will kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world.

Radical Muslims believe that their God will kill the infidels, to convert them or destroy them, to conquer the world.

The only difference being you are waiting on your God to do it, radical Muslims are trying to help their God out and do it themselves.

End result is the same.

Twisp - the end result is far from the same.
A Moslem who comes here does not have to worry about looking over his shoulder for the Christians who are out to kill him.
A Christian in a Moslem country has to continually watch their words/actions and other people or they may wake up dead.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Twisp - the end result is far from the same.
A Moslem who comes here does not have to worry about looking over his shoulder for the Christians who are out to kill him.
A Christian in a Moslem country has to continually watch their words/actions and other people or they may wake up dead.

How is the end result in each religion different?

Christians believe that unbelievers will be punished and go to Hell, Muslims believe that the unbelievers will be punished and go to Hell.