Err on the side of caution?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think it can be dangerous.

But what if you feel the need to change on something? What if you felt that it was 'safer' to not go to Six Flags, but later you change your mind? What if you felt it was 'safer' to watch absolutely no videos of any kind, but later realize that that might have been an unwise pronouncement. Or you thought long sleeves were 'safer', but come to feel that shorter sleeves aren't too horrible.

You can rock these people's worlds.

I've seen this happen SO many times! These changes can really upset them. "I thought this stuff was a sin, and now it's not?? What else was I told was a sin, but isn't? So what else is going to change??"

It can literally cause this type of person to stumble, and stumble hard.

That's why I think it's better to teach the GOSPEL. Not to add in a bunch of 'just to be safe' extras. Because the extras can change.

And also, as D4T said, it can breed fear and a lack of trust in God.

Now let me ask this... what's the next step?

What if leadership get's a clearer understanding that, let's say TV's or facial hair on men are not "sin" or "bad things" as they have been taught in the past, but if we move the line and now allow these things, so to speak, where would it end?

"So let's not move the line"

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Justin

Now let me ask this... what's the next step?

What if leadership get's a clearer understanding that, let's say TV's or facial hair on men are not "sin" or "bad things" as they have been taught in the past, but if we move the line and now allow these things, so to speak, where would it end?

"So let's not move the line"

Where would it end? First... that is a statement based in fear... pure and simple.

But... to answer the question.

One would assume that it would end at a place one could back up with scripture.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I think it can be dangerous.

Here's why:

You basically have two types of people in this world - people who like to analyze things, question them, study things out for themselves..... and people who don't. People who don't feel capable of studying things out for themselves, or simply don't want to. The second type just says - tell me what to do so I can do it and get on with my life. They don't want to spend tons of time thinking it all out, they just want to line up and then move on to other things.

That doesn't sound too bad, but here's the problem with that..... the things that you tell them become set in stone in their minds. They embrace it, live it, believe it.

But what if you feel the need to change on something? What if you felt that it was 'safer' to not go to Six Flags, but later you change your mind? What if you felt it was 'safer' to watch absolutely no videos of any kind, but later realize that that might have been an unwise pronouncement. Or you thought long sleeves were 'safer', but come to feel that shorter sleeves aren't too horrible.

You can rock these people's worlds.

I've seen this happen SO many times! These changes can really upset them. "I thought this stuff was a sin, and now it's not?? What else was I told was a sin, but isn't? So what else is going to change??"

It can literally cause this type of person to stumble, and stumble hard.

That's why I think it's better to teach the GOSPEL. Not to add in a bunch of 'just to be safe' extras. Because the extras can change.

And also, as D4T said, it can breed fear and a lack of trust in God.

That is exactly the point. The things they are told which are embraced as a simple truth are then used, like a theorem in geometry, to create yet more proofs or truths. Suddenly they find their whole theology is based on underlying assumptions that are not quite as rock solid as they once thought and are either faced with changing their Christian world view, simply ignoring any doubts and going with the assumptions they always had, or abandoning the faith altogether. Meanwhile the people they may have turned away from Christianity along the way will never be known.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

That is exactly the point. The things they are told which are embraced as a simple truth are then used, like a theorem in geometry, to create yet more proofs or truths. Suddenly they find their whole theology is based on underlying assumptions that are not quite as rock solid as they once thought and are either faced with changing their Christian world view, simply ignoring any doubts and going with the assumptions they always had, or abandoning the faith altogether. Meanwhile the people they may have turned away from Christianity along the way will never be known.

Well said.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Jim H

Ahhh... the "I'd rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch" statement I just referenced in another thread.

IMO, it's absolutely trying to make heaven by works. It's reliance on our own righteousness than God's.

Works only brings the condemnation of the law because you're trying to pay down the debt that Christ already paid for.

What about these:

James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works ? can faith save him?
KJV


Can faith save him? If no works.


James 2:21

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works , when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
KJV




Abraham was justfied by works.






James 2:24

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
KJV



A man is justified by what? works.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

What about these:

James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works ? can faith save him?
KJV


Can faith save him? If no works.


James 2:21

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works , when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
KJV




Abraham was justfied by works.






James 2:24

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
KJV



A man is justified by what? works.

Everybody has works of one sort or another and those works express their faith.

What the subject concerns is those people who say... I'd rather do more works... just to be safe.

Apples & pickles.

[Standards]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Everybody has works of one sort or another and those works express their faith.

What the subject concerns is those people who say... I'd rather do more works... just to be safe.

Apples & pickles.

I like apples and pickles. They go well together. You've never tried the combo. Don't knock it till you've tried it...

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Everybody has works of one sort or another and those works express their faith.

What the subject concerns is those people who say... I'd rather do more works... just to be safe.

Apples & pickles.

right, but I was addressing the person posted scriptures.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jim H

Ahhh... the "I'd rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch" statement I just referenced in another thread.

IMO, it's absolutely trying to make heaven by works. It's reliance on our own righteousness than God's.

Works only brings the condemnation of the law because you're trying to pay down the debt that Christ already paid for.

heaven by works? Only if your source is Christ is this true. The source of salvation is Christ and his mercy toward us by dying for us and beinging us into new covenant and life. The power of the blood of the covenant is seen in walking as he walked by his power.

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

are we free in regards to righteousness now as covenant people? Actually lawlessness is what brings condemnation of the law not works otherwise you mock His Word. Again you confuse the point of Paul and works and are totally ignoring James.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. KJV

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Jim H

Ahhh... the "I'd rather make heaven by a mile than miss it by an inch" statement I just referenced in another thread.

IMO, it's absolutely trying to make heaven by works. It's reliance on our own righteousness than God's.

Works only brings the condemnation of the law because you're trying to pay down the debt that Christ already paid for.

heaven by works? Only if your source is works is this true. The source of salvation is Christ and his mercy toward us by dying for us and bringing us into new covenant and life. The power of the blood of the covenant is seen in walking as he walked by his power.

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
Rom 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

are we free in regards to righteousness now as covenant people? Actually lawlessness is what brings condemnation of the law not works otherwise you mock His Word. Again you confuse the point of Paul and works and are totally ignoring James.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. KJV