looking for a prooftext ...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by JN Anderson

I don't think we need a proof-text for everything we do in practicum. I think it is nice to but would reserve laboring for a prooftext on doctrinal issues.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Something to think about
(Heb. halal) (146:1, 10; 147:1; 149:3; 150:1, 6) Strong’s #1984: The verb halal is a common Hebrew word for praise. It may be used to exalt human beauty (Song 6:9), a virtuous wife (Prov. 31:30), or a wise man (Prov. 12:8), but most frequently halal is used to praise God. It often occurs in the imperative, expressing an exhortation or command: “Praise!” (135:1) or “Praise Him” (150:2). The most familiar example of the imperative is halleluyah (meaning “Praise the LORD!”; see 146:1; 150:6), a combination of halal and the divine name Yah. The last five psalms present a climax to the praises contained in the Book of Psalms, commanding believers (145:10), the Israelites (149:2), the angels (148:2), Jerusalem itself (147:12), the heavens (148:1), and finally every being that has breath (150:6) to praise the Almighty God, the Creator of the universe.
Radmacher, E. D., Allen, R. B., & House, H. W. (1997). The Nelson study Bible : New King James Version. Nashville: T. Nelson Publishers.

When was the last time you saw a man rolling on the ground to praise his wife? Or running around in circles?

It may be used to exalt human beauty (Song 6:9), a virtuous wife (Prov. 31:30), or a wise man (Prov. 12:8),

Obviously, and logically, in this instance, you wouldn't see the man rolling on the ground to praise his wife or running in circles. Also, the definition says, "It may also be used....."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think it is unfortunate for you to say you know the heart of every person, in their worship, by saying:

I think it's unfortunate of you to say I said I know the heart of every person, in worship, when I did not.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It may be used to exalt human beauty (Song 6:9), a virtuous wife (Prov. 31:30), or a wise man (Prov. 12:8),

Obviously, and logically, in this instance, you wouldn't see the man rolling on the ground to praise his wife or running in circles. Also, the definition says, "It may also be used....."

It may also and it gave examples. The same word is used in those verses.

My main concern is with what unbelievers think when they visit and as well with the idea that "THIS" is how "WE" worship kind of pressure by miniters that think for some reason if the place is not upside down with people running and screaming that no worship is going on

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I think it's unfortunate of you to say I said I know the heart of every person, in worship, when I did not.

LOL! But, really, you just cannot say that "For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance are more forms of celebrations or releasing of pent up excitement than actual praises directed towards God."

Even if 10 people are releasing pent up excitement, I've never found, in my experience, that there were that many disingenuous people. I've found many more that were as heartfelt as King David. Perhaps, it boils down to personal perspective and experience on both our parts.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

It may also and it gave examples. The same word is used in those verses.

My main concern is with what unbelievers think when they visit and as well with the idea that "THIS" is how "WE" worship kind of pressure by miniters that think for some reason if the place is not upside down with people running and screaming that no worship is going on

We certainly should be concerned by what unbelievers walk in and see. I will give you that.

You are, seeming, to say that the majority of churches are pressured by ministers ranting and raving. Perhaps there are some or many. That is not the case where I attend church.

Do I throw out self-expression because of that? Of course not.

I remember Bro. Grisham talking about bringing his nephew to church. I think it was his nephew. Bro. Grisham worried about an elderly man in church who would always rock back and forth and say "Ahhhhh....Ahhhhh....Ahhhh..."

He didn't want him acting up when his nephew visited. Well, sure enough, the old man did his thing. After the service, Bro. Grisham, with trepidation, asked his nephew how he liked the service. "I love it."

"Oh, um, really?! What part did you like the best?"

"I liked the part the old man did!"



I think we see some strange and weird stuff. But, I also have seen, on the larger part, very sincere worship.

I'm not going to try to tame that, tamp it down, or get involved - unless - someone is totally out of order and it is a huge distraction.

Dance, whirl, run, jump, whatever! - just worship with your whole heart!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

LOL! But, really, you just cannot say that "For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance are more forms of celebrations or releasing of pent up excitement than actual praises directed towards God."

Even if 10 people are releasing pent up excitement, I've never found, in my experience, that there were that many disingenuous people. I've found many more that were as heartfelt as King David. Perhaps, it boils down to personal perspective and experience on both our parts.

yes I can say that. Even your definition of Halal included celebration. Halal is not the only word used for praise

Praise
the act of expressing approval or admiration; commendation; laudation.
2.the offering of grateful homage in words or song, as an act of worship:

Why is releasing pent up excitement or celebration according to you being disingenous? That's YOUR words not mine.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

We certainly should be concerned by what unbelievers walk in and see. I will give you that.

You are, seeming, to say that the majority of churches are pressured by ministers ranting and raving. Perhaps there are some or many. That is not the case where I attend church.

Do I throw out self-expression because of that? Of course not.

I remember Bro. Grisham talking about bringing his nephew to church. I think it was his nephew. Bro. Grisham worried about an elderly man in church who would always rock back and forth and say "Ahhhhh....Ahhhhh....Ahhhh..."

He didn't want him acting up when his nephew visited. Well, sure enough, the old man did his thing. After the service, Bro. Grisham, with trepidation, asked his nephew how he liked the service. "I love it."

"Oh, um, really?! What part did you like the best?"

"I liked the part the old man did!"



I think we see some strange and weird stuff. But, I also have seen, on the larger part, very sincere worship.

I'm not going to try to tame that, tamp it down, or get involved - unless - someone is totally out of order and it is a huge distraction.

Dance, whirl, run, jump, whatever! - just worship with your whole heart!

Some old man rocking back and forth going "ahhhh ahhh ahhh" is hardly comparable to someone going at a full sprint in church or someone suddenly screaming at the top of their lungs. It's shocking to a lot of people unused to it.

whirling?

The concern I have is we Pentecostals often think if we do something outrageous it will account for something. I remember in an LS service I watched a young man run down to the platform, up the back wall, climb up and OVER into the baptismal tank and come out soaking wet.

We've gotten accustomed to that and I think that is why a lot of people just say "amen" when LS or someone else teaches that stuff on hair. Anything goes

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

yes I can say that. Even your definition of Halal included celebration. Halal is not the only word used for praise

Praise
the act of expressing approval or admiration; commendation; laudation.
2.the offering of grateful homage in words or song, as an act of worship:

Why is releasing pent up excitement or celebration according to you being disingenous? That's YOUR words not mine.

That's fine, but it's a broadbrush statement, IMO.

My point is that Praise involves a whole lot of definitions. You seem to want to only use the ones that work for you.

I didn't say that releasing pent up excitement is being disingenuous. You said you felt, "For the most part leaping or running or other signs of physical exuberance" is only that and not actual praise to God.

I'm saying that I disagree with you. I do see much of the excitement and exuberant worship as actual praise to God.

I need to cook dinner, so I can't respond further right now.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Some old man rocking back and forth going "ahhhh ahhh ahhh" is hardly comparable to someone going at a full sprint in church or someone suddenly screaming at the top of their lungs. It's shocking to a lot of people unused to it.

whirling?

The concern I have is we Pentecostals often think if we do something outrageous it will account for something. I remember in an LS service I watched a young man run down to the platform, up the back wall, climb up and OVER into the baptismal tank and come out soaking wet.

We've gotten accustomed to that and I think that is why a lot of people just say "amen" when LS or someone else teaches that stuff on hair. Anything goes

And my point is - how many men in your lifetime ran up a wall and into the baptismal tank? This just isn't the norm.

In 25 years I have seen one guy run and do a total flip landing on his feet and one women that looked like a chicken pecking. Nothing else has been that big of a deal.

If we aren't careful, we are going to put a lid on it and end up like a Baptist church. I do want to be careful, but I was already a Baptist. I don't want to be one again.

I will admit that as a new convert, I felt pressured to spin in a circle. I learned that day that there is a difference in being moved on by God and just copying everyone else for the sake of being a Pentecostal. So, I will give you that. I never have, from that day, responded in church by coercion again. I just won't do it.